Tyler Breaks His Silence As an MST Warrior

Speaker 1 (00:00.386) Content warning. The Silence Voices Stories of MST podcast discusses sensitive and potentially triggering topics related to military sexual trauma. We want to provide a safe space for survivors and those seeking to understand these issues better. Please be advised that the content may not be suitable for younger audiences. Listener discretion is advised. If you or someone you know is in need of support, please consider seeking guidance from a mental health professional or a trusted resource. Speaker 1 (00:37.41) Welcome to Silence Voices, Stories of MST, hosted by Rachelle Smith. This podcast is dedicated to giving a voice to military sexual trauma survivors. Each week we'll bring you powerful stories of courage, resilience, and healing. Join us on this journey to create awareness, spark dialogue, and drive change within the military community. It's time to break the silence and amplify the voices of those who have been silenced for far too long. Listen in and become a part of a movement that's shaping the future. Speaker 1 (01:27.234) This is Silence Voices, stories of MST. Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of Silence Voices, Stories of MST. I'm your host, Rachelle Smith. Today, we're sitting down with a truly remarkable individual who, despite facing unimaginable challenges, stands strong as a true warrior. We explore the unique journey he had of joining the military at an older age and celebrating the seemingly small victories that were in fact, monumental steps toward change. In our candid conversation, our guest opens up about the unspoken battles that followed his traumatic incident, the silent struggle of choosing not to report out of fear, ridicule, and shame. Through trial and error, Tyler discovered the power of various therapies and coping mechanisms on the road to healing. Along the way, he realized the profound impact his story could have on his daughter's life, giving him the strength to persevere. Join us today as we navigate through the complexities of mental health, triumphs over adversity, and the unwavering support that became the cornerstone of his journey. A super special shout out to his incredible wife, a true ally in the fight against the shadows. So stay tuned for a conversation that transcends silence and empowers the warrior within. If you'd like to reach Tyler and send him a message of encouragement or tell him how his story resonated with you. Stick around till the end of the episode and I'll tell you how. Thank you so much for joining us today. How are you? Speaker 2 (03:05.843) Hi, thank you for having me. I'm doing okay today. Today's been an okay day. I did want to say thank you again. It's so difficult to put yourself out there and speak about a trauma like this. It's deeply personal and my listeners and I are so grateful for you coming on the show and being an open book like this. Thank you so much. out of prom and that, I mentioned earlier, thank you for this podcast as well, because you're doing incredible work by providing like organizations says, a voice to the boys. So thank you for doing that as well. My hope is just to help people feel heard and seen and not so alone. So do you want to share about the military? I got a little bit late of start then compared to others a little bit. joined when I was a enlisted when I was 26. There was kind of an answer I give to the Air Force when I was, you you usually have your recruiter, maybe your first base when you get there, the usually always, you know, asked to be, what were your motivations to, to join and everything. And so I kind of had a stock answer that was, you know, kind of I varied from at times was, you know, I just wanted to get my college, you know, my Speaker 2 (04:22.516) my master's paid for because I already had received my bachelor's before I came in and worked in the criminal justice field. That was one answer I gave. I just wanted to do something different. But the real answer was kind of twofold. One was I wanted to kind of get away from my childhood environment. I kind of grew up just outside of Flint, lived there all my life. Grew up being sexually abused as a child. Very distrusting environment, not a healthy family environment, very distrusting of family at that time. Being able to be pretty resilient, I look back on and kind of was able to suppress a lot of that stuff growing up. I was able to mold myself into kind of, know, think model, looking back at it, being able to model some of my behavior from, you know, what was considered typical and normal behavior. And so I was able to. play sports and you know, I was involved in some other activities and had a really, you know, on and off again relationship. And so I was able to kind of go through life relatively unaffected, but there was always that deep seated, untrusting feeling of wanting to kind of get away, but school and was something I wanted to kind of finish up with. But once I think the great recession hit in 2008, that was also a propelling factor for me. And I also had a, My grandfather, I looked up to growing up, he was a Korean War veteran. You he had a lot of good qualities that I wanted to emulate. Those two big factors, my grandfather just wanted to get away from my childhood environment. So the people from where I grew up at were two main factors for why I decided to enlist. But that's, you know, like I said, that's not something you go in and tell your recruiter about, but those were the two main factors. Mm-hmm. That's a really difficult decision for an 18 year old to make when alone someone that's in their mid 20s. But it's true. You do have all these opportunities in front of you that you might not have at home. With that being said, what were your expectations when you joined? Speaker 2 (06:31.534) Yeah. So I guess the positive thing about that is, you know, I came in kind of feeling like I had a blank slate in regards to not really have a lot of expectations. I really didn't have a support system in place in regards to knowing what to expect in the military. se, my grandfather had already passed away by that time. I didn't grow up in a military background because of that. And I didn't really come in with a lot of preconceived notions of what military life was going to be like. I remember just wanting to personally just evolve. You know, I wanted to grow as a person. wanted to kind of, the one thing I will say about the military is I already came, I did come in with the belief that, you know, it's going to be able to, you know, it breaks you down and then it builds you up again into what they want you to be. And I always, I kind of already felt like, you know, I need to be built up. I needed to kind of evolve and grow as a person so that I was, I felt like, all right, I have a blank slate. You can build me and mold me into what you want me to be. And I felt like that was an advantage for my part. And then I wanted to kind of just commit to whatever role I was given. think going with an open job entry, I in with a job already kind of a set for myself. I wanted to make sure I was comfortable with whatever role it's going to be in within the Air Force. And so I kind of went in as like aviation. I had an aviation job already kind of lined up. And so I wanted to be able to kind of set my sights on being able to be committed to that role. I wanted just to do that and kind of. navigate my journey discreetly until I my footing. But again, joining at a later age, 26, I already kind of stuck out from the crowd. I think naively thinking that I was going to be able to discreetly find my way under the radar wasn't exactly happened according to that, my initial plans, but that's what I wanted to do. Did you feel that sense of family and maybe camaraderie that you were missing? Speaker 2 (08:28.024) Yeah, I think in tech school, once I got to tech school and everything like that, I started to find my niche a little bit better, being able to kind of communicate more with some people, maybe around my age group and also run by maybe similar interests that I had. At the time I was able to find a little bit more solid footing. Once I got to like my tech school, I felt like that was a good transition period because I was one step closer to getting my duty base. I found that to be a good time. Although you get put in different situations with, people, didn't exactly have the best roommate. Um, and so you know how that could be when you have a roommate that is a total polar opposite. And so it was a, it was a very, uh, it was an experience that I learned from in regards to how to handle situations where maybe people don't have their best, your best interests of mind. But at the same time, it was a good experience of being in a new area and being able to, to kind of. You know, kind of already, I still have some friendships from tech school that I keep in touch with. So from that aspect, was a good experience and I was able to kind of forge some new bonds at that point. I'm smiling because the shitty roommate experience is so universal, regardless of your branch of service. I think we all know how that feels. Yeah, I had my roommate, he was in a leadership position and so he didn't model his behavior that way. And so he used to blame a lot of stuff on me. Like room cleanliness and everything like that and smoking. And I'm like, I don't even smoke. So I don't know why, you I don't know why you would think I'm be smoking in the room. yeah, so eventually, eventually he got reprimanded for some of the stuff that he was blaming on me. Speaker 2 (10:20.43) The only reason why he got reprimanded was because I finally spoke up because I, think my behavior, which I reflected back on now, I'm sorry. don't like confrontation. I think I learned that from an early age. I don't like to speak up for myself so much because when I have spoken up in the past, I'm routinely dismissed. And so when you feel like you're routinely dismissed, you just kind of feel like, okay, I just, I just shouldn't speak up because nothing's going to change anyways. And so I think I. At that point, once I was starting to get reprimanded for my roommate's behavior, that's when I was like, I had to provide evidence of contrary to what was being done. And once some of that came about and I was apologized to and everything like that, think that's when it was like, okay, maybe things will be different in the Air Force. And so it was like, that was a good experience for me at that time. That is so interesting that such a small moment could be so pivotal in your life and it's over something as dumb as cigarettes and a bad roommate. I can't imagine how that must have felt to finally put down your shield and your sword and your mask that you'd been wearing since childhood and finally stand up for yourself. How did it make you feel? I definitely was still in the mindset of trying to be positive. had optimistic attitude and I knew I was just counting down the days, building up my duty station. And I looked at it as an obstacle along the way that I was able to overcome. And so I still try to carry that positive attitude. That's incredible. You had a heart reset for your mind. Speaker 2 (12:05.57) Yeah, was, yeah, like you said, it was, it was a, to me, I was more, it was definitely a forced mindset. did not want to carry a negative vibe. And so I think when you kind of practice positivity that beats over. And so I was kind of that mindset where I just, I continually just try to practice positivity and, kind of bringing into, you know, bringing good energy. So to do it first was it? Yeah, but also, but also I had experienced to kind of go back on it. mean, I had had to do that at a really young age forcing positivity when I didn't feel that way. And being able to mask some of that stuff as well. You know, I was able to kind of revert back to that some stuff, a lot of stuff that I had suppressed kind of came easy in that sense as well. That's such a testament to your inner strength and mental toughness. What would you say it was like when you did finally get to your first duty station after tech school? So when I got to my duty station, I was introduced to my fellow colleagues at that time. And so it was a shop of like six, seven people, and we were high ops temple. We were deploying routinely at that time, because it was like 2009. When I got there, was gung ho. I was motivated. I wasn't one of those people that were going to shy away from being deployed. wanted to deploy. wanted to go down range. I wanted to experience the gauntlet of. Speaker 2 (13:36.588) challenges that were going be afforded to me. think within like a year of being there, was already within eight months of being there, I was already deployed down the range, taking my CDC's kind of going through the gauntlet at that time. So you were the model airman, then this assault happened, and you changed. Can you take us through that to your level of comfort, of course? I guess, leaned up to it a little bit. had just recently completed some professional development training base. And so I was kind of, you know, a weight off my chest and I had actually prior to then too, was working, had recently worked through sexual harassment that I had when I was down range on a deployment where somebody had decided they wanted to gratify themselves in the shower stall. next to me when I was trying to get ready for work and I brought back breast issues I had being molested by my babysitter at the time we were growing up. And so I was having night terrors that was battling through and, and at that time and sleep deprived and trouble concentrating. And it took effect on me at that point. And so I worked on that when I got back, it was, I was making solid progress and stuff like that. And I was kind of rewarding myself. was going out to a party, you know, now, now at that point in time, I was going out to a party, kind of rewarding myself for the hard work that kind of maybe put my, you know, kind of gone through and the vibe at the party when I was there, it was just kind of awful. And I was thinking to myself, maybe it's just off because I'm already buzzed to begin with. I was trying to unsettle the nerves and being there and so was already drinking and was kind of, kind of working through that. then. Speaker 2 (15:26.638) you know, kind of mingling back and forth with some people, queens as I had known and stuff like that. And then I think probably, I don't know how much time I've lost, maybe 40, 30, 45 minutes or something like that. But at that point I was starting to feel, okay, I probably drank a little too much than I should have. So I was starting to feel a little, little, a little bit, a little bit unsettled. wasn't at the blackout stage or anything like that, but I definitely was at the intoxication stage. So at that point I was by myself. don't know how I kind of, think I just wanted to get my bearings at that point. And so I had kind of got away from party a little bit. And then all of a sudden, I think I had heard this brought up in sport classes was sometimes people can smell fear or maybe not fear, but they could, predators can sense, opportunity. pride or vulnerability. Yeah, vulnerability. so I had put myself in, I say I because that's how I felt going through therapy and stuff like that. had I had gotten into a situation where I was alone and I had this guy never seen before in my life, true cut, kind of frat boy type. And he just immediately didn't even say a word to me. Just a cold slut. Speaker 2 (16:56.81) still cool glaze came across his face and he just reached his hand into my, into my, my shorts, that I was wearing at the time to, to start connelly. And I, I had told myself over the years, if anything similar had ever occurred like that again, there wouldn't be any, I want to be frozen. wouldn't. You know, be startled. want to be in shock. would immediately go into fiscally assault that person. And I was doing none of that. At that point, I was startled. I was frozen in time. I can't believe what was happening to me. I kind of kind of retracing what I was thinking, you know, I can't believe this is happening again. What did I do to get this impression that I wanted this? where's anybody, where's everybody at? And at that point I was starting to already black out at the same time. I, I maybe because of anxiety as well, because of what was happening in a combination of alcohol. And I remember my pants being unzipped. I, thankfully I don't remember everything that occurred. I do remember the last, as he was, from behind me. I had already at that time, how timing works out mysteriously is right before all that happened, I had already called the cab as well because I was not safe to drive. knew that. And so was trying to get a ride back. I came to afterwards with my pants around my ankles and I heard my name being called from a Speaker 2 (18:57.518) all ways away and that I was my my ride was there. I don't know to this day how I got back to my room and everything like that my place and I was able to get the cab get to my room my place and woke up at about maybe 333 a.m. in the morning sometime early in morning. with my head just about watering about to full of blood, my cell phone just kind of hitting to the side, my pants just all. all bloodied and I merely thought most range of emotions coming through at that point were I wish I was not up at this time. wish I just drowned in that bathtub to eventually numbing myself to whether it happened because I needed to be ready for duty and not tell anybody that it just happened. I just kind of reverted back to that mindset of being a kid and not wanting to tell anybody. I'm so sorry. What was it like to... Speaker 1 (20:24.258) This nightmare just happened and you had to go to work like it happened. You know, as much as we try to suppress things, as much as we try to numb ourselves out, which I had done for on time, very, I think probably pretty proficiently our body, there's, know, the body keeps the score. Yeah. My body was definitely keeping the score pretty immediately. A lot more immediately than I give it. I give it credit for, I think it was that added sense of betrayal and shame. and embarrassment that I was feeling overcome with. Cause I looked at the military as like a chance of a new support system, chance of growing and a safe harbor. Your fellow women, your brothers and sisters are not going to do something like that to you. They're there to support you and to help you and stuff like that. That can not happen. Why would anybody want to hurt you like that? That's kind of the night. that naiveness that I kind of had. People would joke around and stuff like that, but that's not gonna, people are not actually gonna act on their intuitions or their, you know, do something that is going to profoundly harm somebody. Why would somebody want to do something like, you know, why would the military, why would the military have people like that? And so that's looking back, I don't, I was very naive at that point. That's how it, but that's how I fell in it. Quickly, my body was telling me that this was something I needed to release and I was releasing it at all types of ways through drinking, self-medicating, overeating. I did not want to work out at that time. didn't, cause you know how military readiness, fitness is, is definitely stressed upon. I had no desire to be around other guys. No desire to work out. Speaker 2 (22:27.054) especially in a large group of guys. And so I would make up excuses for why they're going to go. Some of them were, were, uh, legit, like vertigo. was having trouble with the vision and stuff like that. Staying balanced. bring that up. Looking back, I've been some of that. I attribute some of that to this, the anxiety of what I was dealing with and what I thought was maybe some vertical was just added to anxiety, but I would bring up. some of those reasons why I had to go to flight med or something like that to go get seen. Other reasons were I just, you know, I, I would try to find any reason I could, I could at that time to get out of doing any kind of organized group fitness because it, the added stress, the anxiety there, I was wanting to go through any kind of punishment, any kind of discipline that I needed to just to get out of that because I thought that was a safer route than to expose it to the truth because the environment and the culture and past experiences had told me that that was correct. And so my body was failing me at the wrong time. I took it as. Did anyone in your shop notice this dramatic change in you? Yeah. It was kind of, you know, I tried to do my best to mask my stuff I was going through, I just matter of just honesty and because our trauma could be messy and everything like that. One of the symptoms that I had started to have was incontinence at my time. And from the nightmares, I would do my best, I thought. Speaker 2 (24:07.246) to clean up and make sure I was good to go at all times. But then I had a supervisor kind of took me aside like, hey, people are noticing like your hygiene and stuff like that is, is kind of, you know, needs some improvement and stuff like that. Is everything okay? Everything. And this individual was a good person. I was probably the one person at that time where I, although he was that person with the mail, I could probably talk to, but even at that point, I him. anything. like, yeah, my bad. I don't know what happened. I have cats and so maybe the cats has got in my uniform and stuff like that. And that must be the reason that my hygiene just smells a little bit off. I'll make sure I get that all washed and everything's all good. And, but like that, my, my weight gain have been probably a pretty apparent as well. Cause like I said, I had no, no motivation to desire at that point. try to improve my appearance because I feel like that my parents was what got me into the situation. And so a lot of that had come to a front and then my lack of concentration and irritability were some other factors that people probably had noticed as well. so now that it's taken the effect, people don't want that negative energy around them. so definitely slowly tried to slowly created the culture. I don't have you sit in the movie easy, Yes. Okay. Yeah. So EZA, kind of, the culture of whispering and people making up rumors and stories about you, that kind of slowly, the culture was there too, that was created. And so, yeah, that's kind of where I was at, at that point. The PTSD really came after you all at once. Speaker 2 (25:59.054) Yeah, in terms of the diagnosis, chronic PTSD, borderline personality disorder, major depression, all that kind of, all the goodies that we get, yeah, pretty much attributed to me. And so I believe, I really believe that some of that stuff could have been mitigated if I would have a, if I would have a support system in place where somebody instead of looking at me as just as a human fail or just treated me as a person and wasn't there to judge me, but it was actually there to with the input. I needed I needed some empathy at that time. Well, were somebody that I could I could trust them. But at the same time, I don't know if I was I don't know if I would have trusted anybody at that time either, because I felt like I was being filled by the military and and let alone by. my distrusting environment that I had at the time. I didn't feel like I was safe in general. And when you go through that kind of trauma as a child, your feelings of safety are impaired. You feel like you can't trust other people, but you also feel like you can't trust your own judgment. You can't really trust yourself. I think that was the big thing right there was the whole questioning. was, I had had initially throughout the years, kind of, I had gone through a lot of times where I was always questioning my judgment, always not self-assured. And, you know, that leads into breeds and self-confidence issues. And that was the way, way of me joining was to kind of regain that trust, rebuild that trust with authority figures and, and being around people like. Speaker 2 (27:43.118) triggers, like aggressive personalities, computational figures, those kinds of personalities very much make me uneasy because I clam up. really just kind of go back to self-retreat mode. That's what I'd like to initially do. And I was trying to break that. was mindful that I needed to kind of break away from that and I needed to grow professionally and personally as a person. And that's what I had wanted to largely get out of. my military service to is Could you explain what it was like to try and navigate your days afterward with the military rumor mill churning as it does where people don't know this awful thing just happened to you. They see that you've changed, but they're just kind of the blanks in with a bunch of nonsense. I really wasn't, I wasn't living, I wasn't handling that at all. I don't know how I got through the last year before I I was, when I boarded out, was, medicating, I was drinking, I was eating, overeating. I think the saving grace that I had at the time was I had my, you know, my wife. That was it with me, kind of saw the daily struggles that I was going through and she was very concerned about me. I also had a newborn at that time too. She was two at that time, pretty much when I was going through the thick of it. Well, actually one, I guess one and a half or so when I was going through the thick of it. It was really tough. I managed somehow to get through the days. I think leadership became less. Speaker 2 (29:33.55) depended on me, they knew that I was having to see somebody at that same time because I had attempted suicide towards the end of 14. Because again, I would rather die. At that point, I would rather die than to kind of come clean about everything I was going through. I felt that as a sense of weakness, so shame. And I had like, know what? There's no weakness and shame in somebody not knowing the truth. I was definitely not getting through it. successfully in any type of way. And my last year were a period of stints in and out of a patient. Yeah. So it was definitely added to that aura of this person, something wrong with him. It's his, he's got a mental issue. We don't need that type of person in our military. That's the vibe. I'll share this real quick. In my own personal mental health struggle, I'd say my parents are fairly religious. And after an attempt on my own life, my dad was like, you know, if you do something like this, you'll go to hell. And I remember looking at him emotionally and I was like, hell would be better than this. Yeah, yeah. I, the sad thing is, you, we feel that way, but we, it's, it feels almost like it feels like mission impossible to get somebody to understand what, you mean by when you say that, like you're already in hell, you already feel like you're in hell. If hell is anything like this, then I'm okay. I don't feel like I have an option. And if there is an option, I have not seen the light of day. Growing up enough in a Christian household myself, I, you know, for several years, felt so disconnected from the church, even as a kid, because like, know what? Going through sexual abuse for several years, like I've asked the Lord for help. I've, I've read, prayed, I've prayed for, to not wake up and feel the way that I feel. And the Lord is not listening to my prayers and what I would like. So if I, if I, you know, Speaker 2 (31:45.314) What is God going to do with to me to kind of make me not feel the way that I'm feeling right now? And so I almost felt safer in the hands of, you know, of hell than I would did in God's country, quote unquote. And so for me, I was personally okay with that and having a religious mother that I had no trust, very manipulative person. I was okay with that thought of being in a dark place because I was already in a dark place and in quote unquote, again, God's country. I didn't, I felt, I've actually felt safer probably in the spares of death. I very much felt that way because the dichotomy was just so confusing that this entity that I'm supposed to go to for healing and salvation is letting this happen to me repeatedly throughout life. And there's just, there was no explanation. made no sense. Why did this keep happening to me? But when you were in therapy, was there anybody that ever asked, hey, What's going on with you, you know, aside from that person that you mentioned a little earlier? Kind of, I guess we'll start with a little bit of the supervision, kind of experience a little bit. so going to the gauntlet of, you know, the tidal wave of shame, humiliation, self-loathing, I have started to crash over me. military culture, as you well know, is a culture of mission readiness, a culture of show no weakness, a culture of suck it up and move on. And so Speaker 2 (33:25.582) There's not a lot of, as many, as many CBTs as many stand down days as we do, as it are done in military. It's I, I always found it much more for show than authentic authentic. And I, uh, and it definitely was reflective of that in regards to how we treat each other and the, you know, in the day to day. so the 99 % of the engagement I did have was like, what's wrong with you? And very dismissive, very. Very critical, very judgmental. And even if it was meant to be in a therapeutic way, the tone and the delivery of it left it to feel like it was anything but that. was definitely not going to generate a receptive response from someone like me to feel like I was in a safe space to open up and talk about that. And I actually had a, at a female woman in leadership. I had direct supervision over me. even point blank told me like when I had, when I had just came back from a suicide attempt and being an inpatient, which he didn't know. I never disclosed to her at that time. Didn't, she still doesn't, I don't think, you know, that incident had happened. And she just point blank told me like, Hey, everybody knows something's going on with you. That it's a you problem. You either got a mental health issue. or some kind of legal problem going on. Somebody knows it's something wrong with you. So either you gotta tell me or you're get some paperwork. Knowing that person's personality at that time, I was not surprised by it. And it was very affirmative why I would not tell a soul what was going on. I was willing to take whatever kind of LLC, LOR, any kind of discipline I needed to just to not tell leadership. or rather die than to feel that added sense of shame and guilt and humiliation. Like it was just another added sense of weakness. Like I am weak. is a new problem. I am the problem. And that's how I felt. And that person now works as a mental health professional. And so that was definitely, you know, kind of looking back on things now too. It was just like, at a sense of perplexity. I did not feel like I was in the... Speaker 2 (35:49.063) and save trust in space. Well, hopefully that person has had a complete change in attitude now that they're a mental health provider. mean, we can only hope. But then also we have to add the factor of you being male to this situation and just the different treatment that you're going to get based on stigma alone. Maybe. Speaker 2 (36:18.03) I ask myself a lot about that over the years because I've seen how there's a very, just when I'm at my immediate surroundings, my base, and also just in my community, how there's a very large portion of behavior that's geared towards men than there are women. I think women don't even, I don't think women receive enough support and encouragement and understanding to begin with. But in regards to just the initial responses of The smirks, the glares, the change in tones and how people talk to you once they realize, okay, like that person has something going on. They almost treat you like a cancer patient. Like, yeah, like there's this added sense of like shame or guilt in how they talk to you. and that makes you this, the added sense of uncomfortability, added sense of mistrust, at least my part is, is there. So that's kind of from a male perspective, how I. how I was treated from that point, but also the smirks brought off the vibe that I was a weak male and that I needed to somehow, I was demasculated. I needed to toughen up and suck it up and rub some dirt on it. And that was very, it's very much the vibe in the community that I'm at right now. There's a lot of trauma Olympics. Yeah. Well, it's especially disheartening when you you tell other people maybe they've gone through some sexual abuse as well. And then they like, well, I was abused as a kid. You understand what you're going going through when you when you see that they don't. The added impact of what I was going through every, every situation, every case is different. I'm not going to pretend to know some of the stuff you've dealt with, but I the added sense of hostility, just at least on my end that I've kind of have seen from a lack of a understanding from the LGBT community, as well as been very shocking at times, but also nothing shocks me anymore. Speaker 1 (38:28.577) my God, I totally understand that. And it's just the weirdest. We're caught up in our, we're all caught up in our immediate lived experiences that we have any kind of, uh, any kind of insight or empathy or self awareness about, about somebody else's house, you know, the shoes that they have to go through. And so it's, uh, not been exactly eye opening for me. Cause again, I, I have lived, uh, I lived through some of that growing up, but it was the reaffirmation of that. that was really disheartening for me that also kind of, think, brought out that added sense like, I just don't want to be here on this earth. What was it like? Well, like I would say that there needs to be a culture change as a whole and not just towards MST survivors, but toward sexual abuse as a whole. So much joking about it that I can't even begin to unpack. Yeah, there's just. Speaker 1 (39:32.726) And I only know about it from the Air Force perspective and the few years that I spent around a bunch of Navy EOD guys. And again, it's the same sort of sick humor. It's a humor that does not realize that there are real people behind this stuff that you are just throwing out there willy-nilly. One thing I had noticed that always bothered me was Every mustache march, guys would walk around proudly with these huge grins on their faces saying that they looked like they harmed children. And I never really knew what to say. And I would just look at them like, what the hell is wrong with you? Why would you enjoy saying that you look like that? And no one nipped it in the bud. No one said anything to them. Even if the person that was on the receiving end of this joke, and they might've been a survivor of something like that, they knew not to rock the boat, which is telling about the kind of community that we have within our military. Yeah. Speaker 2 (40:41.016) I largely attribute that to a combination like social media gratification and the culture that has been just greeted into society nowadays where the more inflammatory, the more disgusting, the more obscene remarks that you say, the more reactions you get, the more reactions you get, the more likes you get, the more likes you get, the more feedback you get, and you feel like a sense of that's what people want to hear, that's what people want to see. And so I think there's some added sense there where people kind of take that into their own personal lives as well. And that's how they, and that's what they, they like, it's the light cultures, the, you know, the content culture at their end, but also it's the same time of accountability as well. I mean, we have people in leadership positions that we put there that are living, breeding examples of predators to. And it's hard to talk to people about that because there is some kind of very big disconnect in society and how and who we put into positions of power. then then, and then people not understanding why somebody like myself or you or anybody else would feel uncomfortable talking about our lived experiences or we would feel uncomfortable talking to you know, or speaking up about it, something that would make us uncomfortable is because it's condoned. And so how, like you said, how you get, how do you change that culture is I, I really, for me, a big thing about it is changing the, how faith based communities, speak to their congregations. One thing that I've really noticed in our communities as well, there is such a big correlation between what's taught in faith. And also they read that they blur the line so bad, into social culture as well in, in social belief structure. And so I, I believe that there needs to be a, I, there needs to be some kind of come, you know, come to Jesus meeting really in regards to. Speaker 2 (43:03.346) unification on some certain issues that can make people feel comfortable around each other again. And I don't really know how you get to that aspect because I think one, need to get people to admit that, realize that there's a problem with how they talk and how they talk and how they joke and who they, in positions they take. And I don't know how you get somebody to realize. there's a problem in there, they don't believe there's a problem. so it's, I really believe that that issue is just going to get worse until somebody, until more people go through those lived experiences. We are such an instant gratification culture that people don't take the time and have the empathy to care about each other until they actually have gone through that personal experience. Mm-hmm. It's the mentality of it doesn't matter until it affects me. I mean, I'm even guilty of I felt that way about MSD because I didn't even know what it was until it happened to me. Could you tell me what it was like to try and get back to some semblance of normal when you did finally separate from the Air Force? was definitely challenging for a good four years on and off. There's, there's weeks, there's weeks. I don't remember that they were a blur. I went through a couple more suicide attempts after leaving the service, several more inpatient facility treatments. I found that peer peer support groups were really good. had a support group that I was at a VA in Kansas a while back. was very, that was beneficial towards me that I was able to, you know, I saw people that were in the service in the seventies and eighties that had gone through the similar experiences I did. There was an affirmation of one aspect of like their thoughts, their mood, their disposition were pretty much exactly reflecting how I was feeling and. Speaker 2 (45:19.822) looking myself in the mirror to how I felt and how I was probably showing to people at the same time. We were emulating very similar dispositions. But also at same time, it was very reflective, introspective, gave me some introspection. Like since I had a daughter at that time, I didn't want my daughter, that was a big motivation for me at that time too. I didn't want my daughter to grow up without a dad. I needed to take some personal accountability for that aspect. I did not want to be, You know, in that condition, 20 years down the road, was either going to have to find a way to get, to get through this, or I was, I wanted to die right there. I needed to find them somehow, some way, um, therapeutically to, to deal with, to deal with my issues, um, that was happening. And, um, it offered good introspection for me at that aspect. At that point in time, like I needed to get my stuff together. was, I was going to be a sin place 25, uh, years later, if somehow I hadn't. if somehow I had managed to survive. So it offered a good reflection for me as well. I learned to be more self-dependent on my own care because the VA taught me that a lot of people that were there in the mater were people that were retired and they had no business working in the behavioral therapy background at all. I had some bad experiences with. But the other treatment where it was pretty much like the objective was like, you are the problem. You're the reason why this happened. I had a, had a instance where I had gone to a facility in Alabama. It was the first time I had been to a facility that was not either court ordered or I hadn't been led into a facility in the back of a police car in handcuffs. Cause I had not wanted to go. I had no intention of wanting to get treatment. I didn't want to get treatment. I wanted to die. And so I, viewed it as a big accomplishment that I voluntarily chuck myself into a treatment facility to try to work on trying to get better. And the first thing the lady told me when I was there was like, see your VA shopping, what, you know, why, what, what is it that you're needing? Oh, not needing, but what is it that you're looking for now? Pretty much like, you know, putting me on the spot, like I was just looking for like attention and like Damon, like had she ever read my case history, has she ever Speaker 2 (47:44.75) She even taking the time to introduce herself or say hi to me or anything like that. It was very much point blank. I was just looking for attention automatically. My defensive front was up and I shut down and I was like, I'm not, I don't want to do any treatment. I just want to go. And then they were startled four weeks into it when I wasn't getting any better because I had shut down. I didn't want to be there. Then the, uh, be a psychiatrist in turn, turn charge of treatment there called me a coward. and called me weak for wanting to leave treatment facility. I told her that I wasn't getting any better. And I think she's waiting for a reaction from me at that time. And I don't think she was going to she wasn't going to get the reaction she wasn't going to get. I was going to get a felony charge for reaching over the desk and going to cost her. That's that was my first thought was like I viewed her as an assailant and I was going to protect myself. It was a way for me to protect myself. But the thing about it is I was on the phone with my wife. at the time, just a while ago. And so I had that in the back of my mind. And that was the only thing that stopped me from taking any kind of very bad impulsive reaction. And so I had told my wife the experience that just had and long story short, the woman had to, she had to apologize. She apologized to my wife on the phone for the way that she had talked to me during the one-on-one and she... I realized that she had made a mistake and she released me from the program. But all that happened, but it was never made into the case notes, never made into my file or anything like that. So it was just another information. I can't count on the VA to help me at all because they don't take accountability for what they say or for making things worse either. So they have an obscene amount of power to be able to control the narrative of what your personal makeup looks like. And so I told my wife, there's nothing. I'm never going to seek treatment again at the VA. I don't, even if, if I'm on best store, just let me die. I would not go back to a VA treatment facility because of that, that bad experience. but I did, thankfully I've, you know, I found somebody here in town locally now in the community that I can, I can talk to and I'm starting to build up a, a better report with now, but she, has shown a lot of, keen. Speaker 2 (50:12.142) insight and awareness and understanding. I mean, that makes me feel seen and understood for the first time here and where I live at for the first time in a long while. it's been a period of roller coasters and I was at one point up to 285 pounds. My weight was, because again, I was just slowly just trying to kill myself. one way or another, my addiction, my impulse control can be used for good things, I guess, at the same time. And so I actually worked my way down to 165 pounds. And then I've kind of gone back and forth, gone back up to 230 pounds and now kind of, so now I'm back down to like 180-ish. I like to try to find that healthy medium, but the problem with diet control, regulatory control for this, from my point of perspective is, I don't get any kind of therapeutic endorphin release from working out. It actually brings a level anxiety to me to be around other people and to be sweating and stuff like that. But I know, mindfully, keeping my mindfulness there, I know it's good for me health-wise and I know it's from mobility and stuff like that, but I don't get any kind of enjoyment out of it or anything like that. But I know it's something I need to maintain and do. I think that's for a lot of people too. If it was something we enjoyed, it was something that we found that was physically and mentally or something beyond physically beneficial that we would maintain that pot. We would maintain that. But for some of us, you know, we just don't get any kind of, we don't get a lot of the tournament out of it. I can't tell you how I feel seen right now. You are the first person that I've met that feels this way. I can't tell you how many people since, I don't know, maybe my last year in the Air Force, that was 2015, they would just tell me, oh, go to the gym or go for a run and tell me that that would make me feel better. But it never did. Speaker 1 (52:21.41) get such bad anxiety, I would panic, and I would just feel like garbage afterward. And no one believed me. Everyone was like, no, endorphins happen when you run. If you feel freaked out at a gym, why don't you go to a women's only gym? And I'm like, it's not the people attending the gym. It is the gym itself giving these issues. wow. I seen. I can't believe this. I've never heard this from another person. It was the gym is in this, crowd of people. There would be times where I just have to sit down and I like at a bench and like my hands are shaking. oh my gosh. I was just chatting and the comment then that people are just tell you like, hey, no, it's you just didn't hydrate enough. Like, no, I know. I know I hydrated before I came to gym. It's not a hydration issue. you just, but you just kind of shrug it off like, yeah, that's probably what it is. And you don't want to go into your whole diatribe of like, you don't understand what you're talking about, but whatever. That's something I've just had to slowly assess myself throughout the day and understand what I'm, what I'm physically and mentally capable of achieving that day. And that's kind of what I work with. I would say even now that I'm back to a place of mental stability, I'm still somewhat reluctant to go back to the gym. And I really think it's just because going to the gym for me is a mental workout before it's even a physical workout. So by the time I get there, I am sure I'm going to have used up so many of my coping skills that by the time I get Speaker 1 (54:06.9) on the treadmill or wherever, I'm already gonna be tired. So I just have to tell you, I feel so validated right now, so thank you for that. Yeah, no, I'm in a sad kind of way. I'm kind of glad that you feel validated. Like I'm glad that you can understand that because it's, it's, it's, can't find anybody that really understood. It's hard to, I haven't had anybody in the community that I'm at right now that's been able to really understand that or at least convey to me that they, understand that. so whenever I've had the strength, the muster of the purse to even talk to somebody about their uh, any issues that I have a common response I've ever I've, you know, received is, know, I knew there was something wrong with you or I knew, you, I knew you were a little bit off those negative connotation is for people that should really know better. And it's, it's really, it just adds another layer of insecurity and self-doubt. I've had a withdrawal from, you know, activities that I, that were therapeutically good for me, but it was not a, it's not in a healthy environment with healthy people. just seeing how some people, when you're able to mask at times stuff that you have going on and you see how they see how some people just like laugh and just like talk about other people that have, you know, trauma issues going on as well. is very, it makes you, it almost provides a, a weight off my, like it gives me a weight off my chest. I'm glad I like that I trusted my instincts or that I wouldn't not convey to you or open up to you about anything because the way that I hear you talking right now is like provides actually a sense of calm that I can trust myself to to not open up, but also provides affirmation like, I'm not, you know, again, I'm not in a healthy environment. Speaker 1 (56:11.822) Yeah, it's, it's almost like you're living maybe a triple or quadruple life. Like you make choices of just how much of you is actually living in any given point during the day. it's, it's, it takes so much mental energy to, to just have to go through that kind of thought process. No. Speaker 2 (56:39.278) It's a mental obstacle course because I've tried to compare it to like being in acting school at times too, because you have to take on so many different roles throughout the day. Your mind mentally, this is so sometimes it's so tired of having to juggle those goals and you don't even understand the same at sometimes like your body can only handle so much of that as well. and, there are certainly a lot of times when my body was, was breaking down because of the added anxiety of trying to add, trying to play those different roles that I, my body was not equipped to handle anymore. Now with where you are, where you're getting back to stability, how would you say that MST has impacted your relationships, friendships, maybe even just your wife? It sounds like she was just this huge support throughout all of this. yeah, I definitely encountered a lot of marital struggles as most people go into situations like this. There were times where I pleaded with my wife to leave me, to divorce me, because I didn't want her to see me go through things that I was going through and I wanted her to be in a quote unquote normal relationship. I wanted her to, that would just tell her to divorce me. You need to be someone that can help. is, you know, able to work, able to, you know, have confidence in themselves and somebody that's, it doesn't feel like a complete train wreck. And I guess part, she dated an awful while before we got married. And so she knew what I was like before we got married. She knew the person that I really was and she knew some of my background as well. And so I think that played a part in her staying with me is like, she had faith that I could, Speaker 2 (58:31.214) get better and get to a spot where I felt like a productive member of society and not live in such a shame and guilt and depression where it was just consuming me whole. And so that was part of the miracle issues there. then, yeah, right now I've definitely taken at a purpose and service of others. I've gone through similar struggles. I, right now it's, very odd being in a community. I live in a military community as well, but my role where I kind of do behavior analysis and intervention stuff, I've actually had to come into contact with a couple MST survivors as well that very much in the mindset of what I was four years ago. I definitely, I take a lot of a reward in being able to connect with them and. be able to leave some of those instances and conversations where they tell me like, Hey, this is the first time I've, you know, felt seen, I've, you know, and I felt hurt. try to get my husband to understand that he tries, really tries and everything like that. But I like, you know, first time I've actually been understood and seen in a while. And those kinds of emotions run through me like, okay, provides that added sense of purpose. okay, I'm here for besides my daughter and everything like that provides that overwhelm. feeling of gratitude that I was able to help somebody else out and everything. So kind of in that place right now, we're gratitude keeping my circle very small because that distrust is still very much there and that understanding from other people is just, in society it's not there. So I keep my circle small, practice gratitude, mindfulness. And I actually, have you seen the movie Devotion with Jonathan Majors? I believe it came out in 2022. no, no I hadn't heard of that one. Speaker 2 (01:00:23.842) He's a pilot. so he's like, I think it's a movie of the, he's like the first black naval pilot in the academy. So he's going through a lot of trials and tribulations with this quote unquote, way man. And he has a scene in the movie where he has a daily motivational book of being able to keep him grounded and to keep him motivated through the struggles that he's going through with racial discrimination and stuff like that. And so that. Just the daily motivational book that he has of what he's actually reciting things that have been said to him that had caused him anger and caused him to feel like he wants to give up. He reversed that psychology and was able to like use that as anger as motivation. I've used that on a technique as well to have kind of flipped it like the negative stuff that I've encountered. I actually have it in my closet area. I used to have a little sticky notes in my closet that coward. You're weak, you're just a junkie. not gonna, you're, you know, a lot of just mean insulting stuff that I support systems. I keep that as a daily motivational thing. Like I can't let that define who I am. I use that from time to time when I feel like I need a reset or reboot, it me going. Yeah, that's if I'm remembering right, that's opposite action. That's from DBT, the dialectical behavioral therapy. Yeah, it's very effective. It really is. It could be very awkward at times too. I actually forgot I had it in my closet one time and I had contractors over at my house doing some remodeling in my second bathroom. And I remember just like, you know, being out with my dog and everything like that, taking care of him. And I had this guy just come back out to the room. He was very quiet all of a sudden. was like, Speaker 2 (01:02:15.118) Hmm. I understand that I'm nervous too right now because I'm, you know, I have another person, my house, but I'm with my dog and everything like that. I'm trying to just kind of reflect on like, why did his RM vibe and energy change? Like, Oh shoot, that's probably why. then I, I, and soon they left to that, that day I just kind of took that down or anything like that. it's added that confirmation as well. Like, Hey, that's why you don't, that's why you keep your circle small. And that's why you don't bring up stuff because you know, people are not going to understand. Yeah, absolutely. If there was anything you could say to the people that were gossiping and whatnot before you separated, is there something you would want to let them know? Yeah, I guess, um, there's been a, definitely a range of emotions five years ago. I would have, I would have said, can't wait till you die. I, I think this dishonestly, that that's what I would have, I would have said, but going through the range of involvement with my emotions to now being one that's just gratitude for each and every day and thankful for, for what I do have. It's one of. Yeah. Speaker 2 (01:03:25.294) I hope that you've changed and I wish I don't wish you any harm. I don't wish you the harm. I don't wish you the trauma. I don't wish any of your loved ones the trauma, the impact and the harrowing experiences of my family and I have had to deal with. don't wish any of that on my worst enemy. I wish that guy kind of, you know, well, in a kind of a odd six cents, just a... I feel kind of, you know, I kind of talking about saying that, but I don't wish any hate on that person. And I just, I hope that, uh, that situation, if he's even thought about her for a single second of his, uh, of his life after that moment, that, um, I hope that either he's changed or situations karma seems to get karma back. Karma seems to work out in ways. the most mysterious ways for people. so I wish that, you know, God and society just kind of take care of that and whatever happens, happens and I'm okay with That's so powerful. That's so much growth. Well, it's definitely, it's certainly a lot of forced growth because I, I can't live, I can't live in a constant state of hate and anger and negativity. I've done that for several years. That culture of negativity and hate, I know it all too well. And I can't allow myself to get that point because I know what it does to me. and I just have, active mindfulness is, is what I choose. Speaker 2 (01:05:07.328) to try to reflect now because I can't let myself get back to that place. My daughter is my motivation and I don't want to be like that. hatred and anger is it's it's poison for the soul. Yes, it really is. It's very hard to let go of that rage. I can't even begin to explain what it was like to just be enraged all the time, but it would come out in all of these odd ways. Yeah, yeah. Speaker 1 (01:05:44.556) And it was never that I was going to hit someone or do what they had done to me. was, I'm going to drink a whole bunch and, you know, have a massive hangover for the next two days. And somehow that was me being angry. And it was never about harming other people. It's when you go through something like that, you usually blame yourself and turn it inward. Yeah. Yeah. It comes out. It comes out all different types of shapes and form. And so, and it's hard to get people understand that, like, understand that our, it's just hard to get people to understand that that's our way of, of there'll be at that point in time. That's that what, that is what we all, that's our safe harbor. That was something that made us made us safe and, and also a defensive mechanism at the same time. And so. It's hard to get people that have not gone through those shared experiences to understand. And I wouldn't want them to really understand because I wouldn't want anybody to go through the mental and physical anguish that we were currently suffering. Yeah, absolutely. Were there other techniques that you've incorporated throughout the day, maybe breathing exercises, kind of grounding exercises? Which ones work the best for you? People have talked about like, you know, art therapy before yoga and sleep. I've gone through the ball, but trust me, the gauntlet of techniques, try different facilities as well. And I've tried to do the meditation and try to do the yoga. You know, we talked about working out before. None of those stuck with me. None of those brought any kind of immediate release or anything like that. But I have learned to incorporate like breathing exercises, mindfulness. Speaker 2 (01:07:35.086) writing therapy into my everyday kind of weekly activity when I feel like I need to recalibrate. And then also having my dog. I originally got him, um, when I just got back from a deployment, my wife wanted to have dog. She wanted a pug and I'm like, all right, yeah, sounds good. It's a small dog and everything like that. It should be that, it should be that bad. Right. And so, but he's really turned to my, uh, the fact though. emotional support animal over the years, like, because there was a period of three or four years where I did not trust a single soul. Um, I didn't want to be around my wife. I didn't want to be around my kid. I didn't want to be around anybody. I didn't want to, I didn't trust. didn't feel comfortable to be myself. Like, cause my mask was off at that point. I had to be vulnerable and he was the only one, uh, I felt like I could, uh, feel safe around. Like he wasn't going to judge me. He wasn't going to criticize me. He wasn't going to. call me a coward, call me weak. And it was just me and him all the times throughout the day. Always there with a face rub or always there was, you know, wanting to get pets, you know, as long as he was getting his food and water, he was a okay. It's really what I needed. Even the condition that he's in right now, my daughter, my wife sometimes jokingly would say, you love him more than me. And it's not, you know, obviously not the case, but it's just that bond that we have. He's my ride or die. And so, To have an emotional, like animal therapy is certainly something I wish the Air Force and all the military branches as a whole would actively look into incorporating more for some of their veterans that are going through post-traumatic stress difficulties. Dogs are just, pure love. They really are. You could just get out of bed and they're just ready to party. it's, it's so reaffirming and reassuring and just the strangest ways, but they're, and you know, cats are the same way. They're just pure love. Speaker 2 (01:09:35.278) have a Siamese cat, rescue Siamese cat, and she just, she goes along with the other, I have a Chihuahua too, and she goes along with Chihuahua, but she absolutely loves the pug, and she will, even though he's blind and deafening, up until a year ago, he wasn't blind, and so he still remembers her. And so, yeah, she'll give him face rubs, and whenever we're gone, I come back, she'll have been sitting with him in front of the door, kind of patiently, just kind of, know, with him to make sure he isn't. over the anxious and everything like that. yeah, they have a good band. With all that you've conquered and seeing what changes the military is trying to implement, whether it's through the executive order that President Biden signed or the stand down days and all the little dog and pony shows, what advice would you give to anyone that's considering joining the military? From a personal perspective with my daughter, I had definitely gone through the evolving motions at the same time. I think that the executive orders, certainly a positive stride. There's more ground to cover. First and foremost, I want my daughter to be happy. I want to be a supporter and I would love her and be proud of her no matter which career path she chose as long as she's happy. so that's from a family perspective for anybody else that has a child. that's worried about them. I would say that, you know, the military is certainly making active, positive strides that should be commendable, transferring to jurisdiction of serious crimes like sexual assault to train prosecutors is a significant step towards, I think, justice, hopefully. But I think the real test is probably going to lie in the consistent implementation of these reforms as well. Having these changes are moving in the right direction, but Speaker 1 (01:11:27.352) Yep. Speaker 2 (01:11:31.404) Military still needs to foster environment where survivors, I don't always even like to say the worst survivor for myself because I feel like it's as an add a connotation connotation to myself. Like, you know, I'm still in that, like, I'm looking for empathy and I'm, I don't want to, I don't want somebody to feel like I'm looking for anything. I've just, I define myself. No, think Lisa Furman kind of has a book out talk about Latina warrior. like the warrior. I'm a fighter. You know, I'm not going to, I'm not going to let something define me. And so I'm a fighter. The military needs to continue to create that environment where fighters like myself, um, feel supported and heard, not just, you know, legally from a legal aspect, but also emotionally and mentally as well. It continues to care something that needs to continue to be developed and, and more resources poured into, because there's a lot of people that are like your podcast, uh, sonless voices. There's a lot of silence voices that are still out there that are. going to continue to be that way because there's that culture of shame that we feel that is. Colonel Furman was my detachment leader. She is an incredible woman and just the strides she's taken in writing about her experiences and her speaking engagements. She's just a powerhouse of strength and inspiration for so many of us. Yeah, she's definitely just from my little bit of time and face to face with her. Yeah, she's certainly a powerful person, presence to be around and she's definitely a great spokesperson for bringing awareness to trauma. And so I definitely have a lot of gratitude for all the work that she's doing. Speaker 1 (01:13:14.796) And now too, you're involved in a nonprofit. Did you want to share about that? I actively do work with an organization based out of Tampa, Florida, it's called Veterans Council on Veterans. We do a lot of work with trying to highlight awareness about the often dismissed and under-talked issue of military sexual trauma in the community for all branches. We highlight awareness. We want to also provide awareness, educational, therapeutic resources for any members that are looking to seek treatment. for their trauma. feel that, know, what there's a lot of us, we only feel comfortable at times talking to other people that have gone through similar instances because those shared experiences that people being able to understand their trauma can make a very meaningful impact that otherwise sometimes can't can't be done in the public sector or done at the VA times as well. And so it's been doing a lot of great work and generating awareness and providing educational and therapeutic resources to people in Olli, just in the Tampa area, but, around the country. And so we have another convention coming up later on in 2024 in, St. Petersburg probably be, during, April, I believe is what we're looking at. so Tony Williams, Osworth Williams is, spearheader of the organization and he does a great job of reaching out to other veterans as well. And it's an organization I truly felt valued and understood. It's definitely a program that I would encourage somebody to, if they're looking to feel valued and feel connected in some way, shape or form to the military community, veteran community, to look more, explore more into and be basically, you could use all the continued support that's needed. Speaker 1 (01:15:09.844) name of it again so people can hear it and find it. Yeah, it's veterans, counseling veterans, Inc. And so it's a organization that's based out of Tampa, Florida, but we have been holding our national conferences in St. Petersburg, Florida. that thank you so much. One final question for you. For someone that is in a dark place right now and they can't really see the light, what advice would you give them or what thing do you think would maybe help pull them out of it? Finding their purpose, looking for a higher purpose did a lot of help for me. Somebody like me going through some of this, I've been through those dark times of death, the despair. The only thing that I was looking forward to was being buried six feet under. I had a pervasive appetite for self-destruction. I know what that's like. I know the triggers. I know the shame, the guilt. the embarrassment that is often displaced upon us by, you know, the military and your community oftentimes too, where you don't feel understood and you feel like there's no way out. I would just certainly encourage anybody feeling that's in that dark place right now, there is hope. There is hope for another day, a time where you feel better than what you do right now, finding that higher purpose, whether it be something spiritual. Speaker 2 (01:16:40.302) a daughter or a loved one, a daughter or son, some kind of passion that you can find that you have for life. Working at that just day by day, sometimes, know, oftentimes we'll be able to transform into other positive influences in your life as well. So I just want people understand, don't give up hope. There is light at the end of the tunnel, as long as you continue to seek it. You know, you're not alone in the struggle. Somebody out there in the world does care about you, does see you, does hear you. and there is hope. Well said. Well said. Well, thank you again for opening up and sharing your life's experiences with all of us. I definitely feel a kinship with you. There's a book, Anne of Green Gables, they say kindred spirits. But yeah, I definitely see that light in you and it's so inspiring to see that you've come so far. And I wish you so much more growth and happiness in the future. Sure. Thank you. Thank you so much. And let me just also thank you for again, having this podcast and being able to have the willpower and strength to go through these podcasts. I'm only one of several that you've had to work with. And I can imagine the amount of strength at times that you kind of had to, you know, manage or work through with hearing some of these other people's similar experiences as well. I wish you continued strength. Speaker 2 (01:18:08.974) prayers as you continue to go through this and also sincere gratitude to thanks. Thank you so much. Well, there you have it, everyone. What a story, right? As we conclude today's impactful episode, I want to extend just my deepest gratitude to our guest, Tyler, who is a true warrior for sharing his journey and his triumphs and his fails with us. Your strength inspires us all to break the silence and continue to find resilience in the face of adversity. If this episode resonated with you, Please share it on your social media platforms and let others know about the importance of amplifying these voices. Remember, your support can be a lifeline for someone else. Tune in next week as we'll bring you another compelling story. We'll be joined by a chaplain shedding light on their unique experience with MST. You don't want to miss it. Together, we can continue to break the silence. Also, if you enjoyed this podcast, please leave a rating on our Facebook page or on Spotify. And I think also Amazon has a rating tool. This just helps the podcast get more visibility and seen by more people. And all we want to do is continue to share our message. Also with this episode, there will be a survey in the show notes. So go ahead and fill that out. Let us know how we're doing and let us know any changes we can make. I always appreciate the feedback. And as always, I invite you to stay safe. you Speaker 1 (01:19:36.844) Be kind and take care. Have a great weekend, everyone. We'll see you next time.