Episode Transcript
Speaker 2 (00:00.386)
Content warning. The Silence Voices Stories of MST podcast discusses sensitive and potentially triggering topics related to military sexual trauma. We want to provide a safe space for survivors and those seeking to understand these issues better. Please be advised that the content may not be suitable for younger audiences. Listener discretion advised. If you or someone you know is in need of support,
Is it?
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please consider seeking guidance from a mental health professional or a trusted resource.
Speaker 2 (00:37.582)
Welcome to Silence Voices, Stories of MST, hosted by Rachel Smith.
This podcast is dedicated to giving a voice to military sexual trauma survivors. Each week we'll bring you powerful stories of courage, resilience, and healing. Join us on this journey to create awareness, spark dialogue, and drive change within the military community. It's time to break the silence and amplify the voices of those who have been silenced for far too long. Listen in.
feeling.
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and become a part of a movement that's shaping the future.
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This is Silence Voices, Stories of MST. Hello and welcome. I'm Rachelle Smith, host of Silence Voices, Stories of MST. Thank you for joining me today. The interview today is with a young woman named Taylor. She and I were friends around the time I graduated high school, and I had no idea that she had experienced MST.
you
Speaker 2 (01:53.448)
And she also offers a very unique perspective because she was not a service member. She was the dependent of a service member. So she gives unique insight into how MST can go completely unreported. And it's a very interesting reason why. In this episode, you'll really understand how drastically this event can change someone's life.
She mentioned that it's been 15 or 16 years since this happened to her and she's still relearning how to trust herself. It's a very frank conversation about how this event has impacted her marriage, what raising her kids is like, and just her opinion on the military, having been a dependent and once considering joining even after this happened.
Although Taylor has come a long way in healing, you can hear in her voice that some days are definitely more difficult than others. And if you'd like to drop a line of support to Taylor, hang in there until the end of the episode and I'll tell you how. And thank you so much for volunteering to participate. really appreciate it.
thank you for letting me know about it. It's important for people to know about.
Talk about your life when you were at Ramstein. Was one of your parents safe?
Speaker 1 (03:18.474)
My father was stationed there. It was actually our second time there from about six months to seven years old and then back to the States and then came over as a teenager. And that was a completely different experience.
What did you love or hate about going back? What was the experience like?
loved going back. Like I love the history of the place. I love that you can, I guess, travel to every because everything is so close for the most part. I mean, it was like a four hour drive, I think, and you were in Normandy, France from where we were. So it was, I missed the traveling, I missed the history.
I hear you. Yeah. I do miss the hopping on the buses, you know, and just sign up for this book. You go to sleep and when you wake up, we're going shopping.
score.
Speaker 1 (04:12.652)
It was great. I feel like that is what every 80 year old's life should be like. You're like, let's get on the butt. We're to go look at pottery.
Did you have a favorite country that you went to visit?
than probably France, because it was there's so much to do and every little town was just like, so different. And it was it was really fun, especially getting to go and see all the different it was like World War Two museums and all the fun stuff that they had out there. So that was actually got to sit on
Omaha Beach, which my grandfather swarmed in World War II. So that was a pretty weird like feeling, but.
How surreal, ugh.
Speaker 1 (05:02.316)
Yeah, it was pretty wild, but I mean, it was nice to be able to sit there and do that. So it was, it was pretty weird.
I definitely feel like that's an opportunity not many people have had. Wow.
No, and it was definitely one I did not want to pass up. So it's you know, we're right there anyways. And I was like, no, we got
I'm home, I'm gonna be the last to get-
There he is.
Speaker 2 (05:26.648)
You're absolutely right. The, just the amount of history and culture over there is almost overwhelming, I'd say.
It can be, but like, I love the fact too that it's like, they can have all these vests and all these, you know, like drunk people around each other and there's no fighting. There is no anything. Like there might be, you know, people get a little too tipsy and have to be a sport out, but it's, it's chill.
I would definitely say I miss that about Germany. Going out in the States when I did finally turn 21, there was always a fight. There was always worrying about getting hurt in some way. Whereas Germany, if you tripped, six people would drunkenly try to help you up.
Yeah. Are you okay? Did you get in your knee? Here's beer. I was like...
And if one of those people that was trying to help you up fell, like more people rushed over to you.
Speaker 1 (06:26.516)
It's so wild, like it's so crazy to me because I think people have all these misconceptions about German people as a whole and it just, I miss it. Like, obviously I prefer Germany to the states, but maybe that's just me. That could be just me.
Living there and then coming back here was like when I lived there, we were there five years straight, never went back to the states or at least while I was in high school, I think I went back to get my driver's license or something like that.
did.
But going back to Texas from Germany, like talk about culture shock. my gosh.
because we came straight from it. And my first like real interaction with somebody from here, we're looking at my lack of culture.
Speaker 2 (07:22.35)
That's strange because you have so much though.
And I still was unprepared for that.
So when I think we met, was, I know I had just started working at the BX there. When you're freshly graduated from high school and you go work at the BX, there's just tons and tons of young enlisted members that are just about the same age as you. It was a kind of a strange way to exist there where I was a dependent and
still the same age as like a lot of these people that were interacting with me. And I was hanging out with a meeting. It, even we went to the enlisted club together at one point we interacted with enlisted members, a whole bunch. I don't think I knew any officers, but yeah, it was just like woven into our lives. I feel like if you're stationed in the U S there's all these other different communities.
Yeah!
Speaker 2 (08:24.6)
How long were you in Germany before this incident happened to you?
I think we got there, I wanna say like, five or six. It had to be five or six. Cause we left, was six. So yeah, it had to have happened in between, I would think seven and eight, which is cause eight is when I met my husband. One year window there.
if you want to take us through that to your.
I went to the NCO club because they did the super fun Corona night.
was on Tuesdays, right?
Speaker 1 (09:11.33)
Yeah, was a Tuesday. This is where the story takes place. Tuesday night when, you know, should have been working like I just went out with some drinks for friends. And there was a guy out there that was flirting with one of my friend sisters and stuff. And he was a little. Abrasive about it, and I was like, hey, just.
Speaker 1 (09:41.122)
Maybe we should tone it down a little bit, like to the point that at one point I remember him throwing a glass like across the patio. Like it was insane. And I'm like, okay, so I'm just gonna, you know, over here. Yeah. And we'll call him, we'll call him Chad. Calm down a little bit and brought me a drink. And he was like, hey, sorry, head witnesses.
sorry, that happened kind of thing. And I was like, hey, but like all the while still making, you know, like this whole thing with my friends. And so by the end of the night, I guess they were officially dating. and yeah, I had had too much to drink, as sometimes happens. But also,
think there was the possibility that something was slipped into my drink, but you know, nobody ever wants to test for that. so yeah, I was feeling a little loosey couldn't find who I came with. And stupid me trusted him to you know, like, just, you know, come chill at my dorm, we'll figure it out, blah, blah, blah, blah, even though I had seen the, you know, aggressive side. But
that like, had nowhere to go. I didn't have my curse. It was with my friend couldn't find my friend because, you know, he had taken off to do his own thing. So it was, it was an interesting night of him basically, like I had nowhere else to go. So I went with him and hung out with him at his room. And then I honestly can only remember
and pieces.
Speaker 1 (11:34.658)
which again leads me to believe there was more than just alcohol. But from what I can remember, like, I know he brought a friend into the room after I was asleep on his couch. Cause you know, after all that, when your memory starts coming back to you, remember certain things that it was kind of hard to come to terms with the fact that he brought someone in the room. And I remember that person leaving.
pretty quickly, but not before having realizing like, this situation is not kosher. I'm a go, but still left me in the room with that man. Like even just going out and drinking and having people like, here's what we buy you. They would drink. Like the second you would walk into the bar sometimes like, oh, hey, here's a drink. I don't know.
just predatory.
Speaker 1 (12:30.798)
I saw you like one time a month ago. a drink. I mean, like I said, I have this false sense of, guess, like safety because he was, you know, by the end of the night, dating one of my friends and I'm like, cool, I don't have to worry about anything. But I mean, really all I can remember are like bits and pieces of like me saying no, me saying stop, really being too weak to fight anything off. And then I wasn't 100 %
percent sure like that actually anything happened or if it was like one of those like, you know, I fell asleep in a strange place, had a nightmare that maybe was just a little too realistic. But yeah, like the dudes threw cash at me and told me to get a cab and go home. And I was like, okay, so go home and I'm like,
still kind of trying to figure out like what exactly happened and get home and I'm changing and I realize I have no underwear like.
And I definitely did when I got, you know, when I left, I was still in high school when it happened. So I took a couple, you know, like days off, went back to school and the whole rumor was like, was, it was my fault. I came on to him. I ruined her relationship. I trusted a couple people and talked.
them about, you know, like how I wanted to go forward and press charges and stuff. And that's when I found out he was an MP. So if I did anything, it was going to come across his desk first.
Speaker 2 (14:26.125)
What was that?
pretty terrifying, like to the point where I wasn't sure if I wanted to do anything because well, if he's an MP, it's gonna cross his desk before it gets to whoever and I was like, that's fun.
And did you speak to your parents about it at all?
Like we had said, think like Corona night was like Tuesday or Wednesday. I don't remember which one exactly, but it was that next day. Like my mom knew something was wrong. I basically was just lounging around on the couch. Didn't shower for a couple of days. Like I just, I vegetated. I didn't want to do anything or talk about it. And finally, like she came and sat down next to me and started rubbing my back and asked me like, what happened? Because this is not, you know, how I typically act and.
So I told her and we went in and you know, at this point, like I hadn't showered, but a brave tip would have been not worth it, basically is what I was told after I went in. I basically just went in for the swab and didn't realize I had anything going on. Well, it turns out that Wonderful gave me my very first STD ever. So I got chlamydia from it, went and told the friend.
Speaker 1 (15:45.13)
And instead of the friend getting checked, she decided to tell the entire school that I was the one that gave it to him and all this. was like, I don't understand because like I literally had just had my yearly pap before that and everything came back normal. So I was like, how did I get to it?
So was wild. She spread rumors all over the school that just kind of discredit me. And I mean, like I was 19 and in Germany, like was I a little wild sometimes? Yes, I think everybody was, but that doesn't negate the fact that what happened to me happened.
just a lot of mental gymnastics going on with your quote unquote friend.
very quickly if we're not friends anymore.
When you were interacting with the medical staff for the testing, did they want to follow up?
Speaker 1 (16:51.95)
No, she called me and told me I had STD and that I needed to let any of my partners know. And I was like, well, there was only one partner. And I had only mentioned him, not the friend, you know, had told her what had happened. And she was like, okay, I'm gonna need you to go next door to report your what did she say?
They basically report my STD so they could have it on record. can't remember. Basically, she was like, okay, cool, you're a statistic now and we need to record this. So you need to go over to, I can't remember the name of the building. But she was like, so you need to go report it. Basically had already told me like the rape kit would have been, wouldn't have been able to do it, but he also used condom because I guess smart on, you know, his end, but obviously not for all of it.
STD, but very dismissive. Didn't give me any resources at all of anybody that I could reach out to. Didn't ask if I wanted to make a report. Didn't, and her tone with me was just like very almost undisappointed in you. My mom was livid at this interaction. And so it was, it was a mess. Like she just, she didn't care. Yeah, it was, it was, I had no.
support other than from my family and a couple friends. Like I actually ended up dropping out and getting my GED and not even finishing high school because of this. Because like the rumors got so bad. Like it just, it wasn't worth it. I would go to school and hear things about me that I know for a fact I never did or it never, it was wild. And then his friends, anytime I went out like,
Like I went to Corona night a couple other times after that did not drink was there, you know, to kind of just watch mutual friends to see patterns if, you know, if that makes sense to try and kind of save them from the same thing happening. But I mean, I later found out that they actually stopped doing it for a while because of the amount of sexual assaults that were coming from those nights. So, but.
Speaker 2 (19:19.746)
Did the staff at school try to intervene?
No, no, because I was already having a problem with one of the teachers too. I made the mistake of correcting a teacher. Don't do that at dog schools. Don't do it. So I was suddenly failing a class and it was just they more so used me failing the class to be like, well, you know, even though she's getting all these papers with these bees back and all this, you know, we're going to go ahead and retain.
And we want you to pay for school, even though we know that like for summer school, even though we know the teachers, the issue here, we want to. I mean, that on top of what was already going on and on top of what the school was already aware of, like I was just like, no, I'm, I'm already 18. I can pull myself out of the school. Like I talked to my dad and he came up and he was like, well, nothing's being done to help her. Nothing's being done.
her so I went and got my GED and I didn't have to deal with anybody that I didn't want to have to deal with anymore so that was still had people messaging me because of course rumors did not stop. You know what like just let her let her go because she's now she's gonna learn like she's she's gonna learn and then I haven't been able to find any information
myself and then was sent to me. But I was told that that person was eventually arrested for attempting it on somebody else. But like I said, without having all of the information that I would need to look it up, I haven't been able to find it. So I don't know how true that is. But man, I hope it's true. I really hope it's true.
Speaker 2 (21:22.314)
And so the guy is just a complete predator. Yeah.
I wasn't the first and I wasn't the last. Like I wish I knew how to, I guess how to look it up and confirm it, but I don't, I don't know. But I mean, even if that was just a little white lie to make me feel safer, like it worked because I didn't have to, you know, worry about running into them.
Was there ever any point that his leadership was involved or like any sort of investigation happened?
None. None. Like I had an appointment. I was trying to make an appointment to talk to somebody like called, you know, the MP office trying to figure out like, who I needed to go through what had to happen. And he answered the phone. I never went forward with it because I knew it would be
he'd be right there. He'd be in their ear. He'd be so it was until it became a known issue that he was the issue. just nobody cared.
Speaker 2 (22:43.062)
this person who's both in a position of power and a competitor.
What was it like just trying to pull yourself together after the rumor mill and getting your GED? And I mean, you were still in Germany for quite some time after that.
Yeah, I was there for I think like four and half, three years after that. So it was, it was rough. I kept very little friends through that. The girl's brother I was fairly good friends with and hung out with all the time. I stopped hearing from him because like I would ask him, you know, hey, like what's going on? Is she safe? Has she said anything? Cause she's still dating. Add, draw all of this.
but it wasn't until they broke up because of the, I guess, supposed arrest or whatever happened that she finally went and got, you know, her pap and got checked and everything. And, you know, she had the STD too. So maybe I wasn't alive, but I mean, that took two years, but it just, you know, she tried coming around after that and I was like, good, like wish you the best, but I just.
I can't, but I mean, like I lost my friendship with him too, because he was like, I don't want to talk about this anymore. So somebody I trusted and hung out with all the time of, you know, well, he's dating my sister, so I don't want to talk about it. While constantly seeing this dude on my newsfeed, and it was just social media. You're watching this person be put up on a pedestal and treated like a normal person, but you know what they're capable of.
Speaker 2 (24:34.542)
time people were just transitioning from Mindspace to Facebook, the faces would have their little pages. Like it wasn't anything official at that point, but they put like promotion ceremonies up there and awards and just having that thrown in your face after. I'm so sorry.
It's rough.
What was your dad's reaction as he was the military member?
I didn't tell my dad for a couple years, just because the kind of person my dad was at the time.
was worried maybe I would be blamed. Like, you know, the whole, hey, you know, better, I warned you about this stuff. And it just it wasn't something I wanted to get into. So it was, you know, like, my mom really helped me through it. I was still going through some stuff when I met. And he was super patient, super great about it. But it's just I didn't have
Speaker 1 (25:49.036)
much of a support system other than just a couple of people that stuck around. So it was, it was very hard to navigate and it's, didn't have, I'll say getting mental health help was a lot easier stateside years after the whole situation happened. So, I I started therapy about six years ago and it's
something I'm still working through. Like the fact that this happened, we had said 15, 16 years ago at this point, like I'm still working through this in therapy. It's been 16 years, it's something that I'm always gonna have. Like you can work through the trauma, but the trauma doesn't go away. Like it's a daily fight.
Yeah. What a lot of people say is they're just at some times they're taking a day second by second. The anxiety, the not knowing if you're going to be triggered by something completely innocuous. Yeah. One of my big triggers is balloons popping. I don't go to kids birthdays. I don't like.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:59.278)
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:09.186)
going to Chuck E. Cheese or just any occasion where balloons are around. I'm a nervous wreck. And that somehow turned into toasters also. What was another one? was, you know, when you're making the Pillsbury biscuits and you have to pull the paper and it's the pop. I flipped it for years.
.
I would sweat through shirts and like maybe go over to neighbors houses and ask if they could do it for me. Or I would pull the paper off and then just put it in the refrigerator and close the door and wait for it to pop itself. Yeah. But it's having that sort of trauma. It's these little things that don't matter at all, but they set you off. Was there ever a point where.
the hypervigilance or nightmares or anything like that became just untenable where you couldn't function.
Probably like the first month or so after it happened, like any time someone would, I guess, come at me in any form of aggressive manner, like even if it was just, you know, talking face to face. And it's people I've had arguments with before that I know would never lay a hand on me that would never, you know, do anything like that. But it's just that first sign of aggression. I'd be like, no, no, no, no, no, no.
Speaker 2 (28:45.806)
your trust is broken.
you're what is called the Arduino, they're pumping out all the air drive in and you're you're inside their flight mode.
Yeah, you really are.
Speaker 1 (29:04.748)
the back of my neck and I immediately just elbow went back because like you said you stay in fight or flight after so it's I didn't like having people behind me for the longest time like if you were not in my you know side of vision or line of vision I was like and it was something I had to say all the time like don't come up behind me and touch me because you make it hurt.
It's not funny, but it's like.
I can definitely relate. had a very good friend when I was, I think it was after I had gotten out of the airports, but I was still up in the Destin Fort Welk beach area and my good friend known him forever, loved him to death. He ran up behind me and squeezed him and I punched him straight in the nose. And he was on a date. He was just excited to see me. Yeah. I, I,
so terrible. Like we were just at a bar and then I left. didn't know what to do. And I hit him like right. Like there was no missing it, you know? And I don't think he got a nosebleed, but there was like drainage. Like it was just this complete, was like my, my body reacted before my brain had a thought. Therapy wise, what do you think is working?
Where?
Speaker 1 (30:27.63)
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:33.934)
as far as like helping the anxiety and everything. Finding my therapist has definitely helped a lot. Just trying to process it. Like I now know like it's not my fault because I mean, I blamed myself for a while because like, why the hell would I go with this person? But I literally had nowhere else to go. Was I supposed to sit outside of a writing bar waiting for my friend to come back? Like, what was I? And yeah.
Like it was, I had to work through that, like thinking it was my fault dealing with, kind of just with how everybody treated me through it all. The therapy has definitely worked and I still do have like panic attacks and stuff like that. That's a fun one to work through. They gave me clonopin for my acute anxiety, which I don't need as often, but it's wild to go from not.
needing, you know, these things to suddenly needing these things and then having to adjust to that. And it's, it makes me angry. Like I'm frustrated because I wasn't this person before. it's essentially I'm having to learn who I am again, and what I'm capable of dealing with on a day to day basis kind of thing.
Is it not something you had to consider at all at any other point in your life? Yep. Now you're living with side quests and terms and conditions and... Were there any particular coping skills that you've learned in therapy that might've helped?
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:16.014)
Sorry, my cat decided to up and be weird.
Was your cat at coping skill?
He is my emotional support animal because anytime my anxiety is up, he jumps up and he'll be here. hi. He's been helpful. Anytime like my anxiety is real bad, he'll come and he'll actually sit on my chest. There was something she taught me to the stop sign technique, which is basically you like, you you just stop your intrusive thoughts, you redirect. And so I'll have to think about a stop sign.
And she wants me to think of every single detail, like about the stop sign. Like, is it in dirt surrounded by grass? Is it, you know, in cement? And I looked at her when she said that, she's like, what? was like, who the hell puts these in cement? Like, I don't think I've ever seen them in a sidewalk. Like, I think it's always grass. And she goes, you'd be surprised. Now I have to think about that. So every time I look at a stop sign, I'm like, is it in cement? What are you doing?
you
Speaker 2 (33:24.398)
It's a grouting technique though. Are you also a ruminator where the thoughts just keep swirling and swirling for maybe hours at a time?
It's very.
Speaker 1 (33:38.312)
It's fun because you know, like you just sit there enjoying your day and then it's like something just snaps and then the next thing you know, you're spiraling for the next 45 minutes and I'm like, where is that stop sign? You have to think of the stop sign.
When you did get back to the States and kind of start life over, what was that like for you?
It was nice to start over. It was nice to get out of there. mean, I had already stopped talking to a lot of the people by the time we left, because I had gotten married. I had had my daughter. A lot of the friends I had by the time I left were like friends I had made through work. So I had already, for the most part, disconnected myself from most of the people I talked to in high school, other than like you and a couple other people.
So, but it was, it was nice to get away from it. But I mean, I'm definitely seeing it's not any better in the, in the States. Just I won't go to any functions like anything like that. won't drink at them. I won't like, I don't want to possibly put myself in like that. Cause a couple of his airmen have, have hit on me in different situations knowing I'm married to him. So I'm like, no.
situation.
Speaker 2 (34:55.66)
And it's part of the culture.
It is. I'm learning there are more squares and, you know, open relationships and stuff like that now these days. But I mean, you obviously have the people that don't follow the rules of whatever those relationships are. I don't know because I'm not part of one, but I guess I'm more shocked at just how open people are about their sexuality and their marriages and stuff like that. Now, to me, that was even more of a culture shock.
Oz.
Speaker 1 (35:27.022)
Coming back here. I'm a firm believer in you. You do you if it makes you happy and you're not hurting anybody. I don't care. But to like just come here and talking to a couple just randomly be like, so we ever thought about, know, being in a struggle and I was like, no, nope. If not, I'm not gonna
even know the lead up to that. Like, were you guys talking about Hoppy and then?
I like don't even remember because it was a cookout. It was at a cookout. There's like, so I get over stimulated very easily, which I think also stems from that. But like, it was just like the weirdest, like the weirdest thing we were taught. I don't remember exactly what we were talking about, but it was something not related to that at all. And then it was just so, and I was like, Whoa, buddy.
Maybe it's time you cool down on those course lights.
It was, I have to pull up a statistic, but I wouldn't say it was while I was in the Air Force when they had done one of those research surveys about sexual assault. Lots of the cases, it's a high percentage of them, alcohol is involved. And it seems like that is something that comes up every time they do one of those research studies. Yet.
Speaker 2 (36:59.432)
military culture is heavy on drinking.
And it still is like to this day, we went to a picnic squad unit picnic squadron picnic and leadership did a prayer and then told everybody that they brought a keg so to go ham. And I'm like, we're in a park like a veterans park. Like what are we we're drinking and driving now? Like I'm so confused. Like it's I don't
I don't understand how alcohol became so ingrained.
to, I think, either before, yeah, like that goes back to England. Probably, probably caveman days to be honest, whenever alcohol was first created accidentally. I guess, I don't know, I find it hard to believe that somebody one day was like, I wonder what happens if I could combine this, this and this and leave it alone for a while.
you
Speaker 1 (38:06.174)
Really fermented. Let's try this.
I'm sure it's almost trillion dollar industry now. It's very interesting. There's this huge disconnect of, this was before Uber had gotten really huge, but there was Airmen Against Drug Driving. At the base picnic, there was always an exhibition about what it looks like when you're at the legal limit. And they would have like three Airmen come out and one hadn't had any alcohol, one had one beer and then one
beers or something like that. And they showed what the cops look for when someone's driving. One of the things is like shaky eyes. It's something that it just happens when you consume alcohol. That's one of the first things they look for. So I'm like they give you all of these preventative measures and yet if you are one of those people in your workplace that doesn't drink, you're the weirdo.
Thank
Speaker 1 (39:04.814)
Mm-hmm.
Make it make sense. I don't know if it's from living in Germany. Like I was a heavy drinker and I didn't realize it was a coping skill that I was using at the time. And then I'd say pretty recently I understood that not only was it an unhealthy coping skill, I was actually using alcohol for self harm. Cause it was like I'd have a panic attack or a really bad depressive episode or something like that. And then drink.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:34.44)
three bottles of wine, let's say. And it wasn't the intent of making myself feel better. was actually my intent was to feel like shit the next day. So like my outside would match my inside.
It's other people that makes no logical sense, but.
Right. But to you, this is, this is a solution right here. And my family, not big drinkers, my parents, I think they have a beer maybe once a month and it's with ice cream. It's like Guinness or a stout of some kind, port of ice cream. It's not that they actually drink the beer. So for me to be a heavy drinker, it's like, where did this come from? And lo and behold, it's trauma.
And then I think a lot of people there, they might have buried that trauma and they don't realize that they're coping with alcohol. And then you're, just, you know, in this environment where you're not only drink, but drink to excess. And it's just like, okay, you gotta be, you know, one of the pack, drink a whole bunch.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:34.872)
Okay.
Speaker 2 (40:46.55)
Also, here's a statistic that alcohol is involved in most sexual assaults. So ignore that for today.
Yeah, my husband had to sit through some trainings where like it literally told him in the training, if your wife has had even an ounce of alcohol, don't, you know, like don't have sex, don't touch her, don't anything because she can turn it around and it can be used against you. And I was like, and that's how they say it. Not, you know, hey, it should be misconstrued as, and I get it because obviously spousal rape.
and abuse. And it does happen. But at the same time, I was like, how are you gonna say like, hey, if your wife has an ounce of alcohol, don't touch her. Or if your partner has an ounce of alcohol, don't touch them because you know, they can turn it around back on me. What? Like, that's how you're gonna say that? Not the wording really aggravated me. It really aggravated me because to me that was also saying
without saying is, we believe most of these, you know, assaults are bogus and just, you know, misunderstanding. No means no. And if I tell you no.
I very much remember in ROTC, I had to think about this for a while because I was like, you when I was in ROTC, yeah, they brought up sexual assault, but it wasn't something that a lot of time was spent on. remember a few briefings and one in particular, it was kind of framed in a date rape sort of way where it's not.
Speaker 2 (42:27.224)
service members committing this against each other or against civilians. It's just randos out in bars that might put things in your drinks. But then I do also remember that maybe it might have been a year or two later. There was an NCO, he was doing a briefing about it and he legitimately said, you need to write on a piece of paper that I consent.
and have that other person sign it that they consent. Yeah, it takes the romance out of it, but you don't want it to be used against you. Yes, it's framed as people using sexual assault as a weapon.
Yeah, that's the same.
Speaker 2 (43:15.19)
And that mentality is firmly, firmly, firmly in military culture where I know the airman that I was dating when I was what, 19. He was telling me like, yeah, girls get buyer's remorse. And they feel like, well, I guess I shouldn't have done that. I just feel like ruining someone's career like on a whim.
No.
not how this works. But you know, I was young then and I didn't know any different, but I don't think it was until it happened to me that I fully understood when all of these people turn their backs all of a sudden. And it was and I don't think I was ever of the opinion that people were using this as a weapon. But I just it wasn't something I really thought about because it didn't concern me. I
on some level feel horrible about that. Like this is an important issue, but it seems like whether it's sexual assault or brain aneurysms or cancer or something like that, it's not something you really think about until it affects you or someone you care about.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (44:29.504)
And now you said you have a daughter and two kiddos,
Yeah, I two kids now.
So how has that event in your life affected you raising them and trying to teach them about the world?
the little one is four. So he doesn't understand quite yet. But I've been very like, want my daughter to know as much as it sucks, like, you can't really trust people that you think you can trust. Because like I said, I mean, I had friends I had had since I got there that once this happened, jump ship. It was or had comments, you know,
One of my best friends made the comment of like how I probably didn't even have an STD and I was just doing it for attention. And it was like, it was a, yeah, a whole thing, a whole thing. I probably wasn't even sexually assaulted. I just wanted, like, this was the kind of stuff I dealt with. like I had my daughter like very, you know, hey, no means no. If somebody touches you and
Speaker 1 (45:45.178)
you don't want to be touched. I was like, you fully have my permission to defend yourself. Fully, I will deal with it when I have to deal with it kind of thing. But like, I'm not going to do what the school does and you know, tell my daughter to where like, hey, if somebody is messing with you in any way, or form, you know, just either ignore it or bring it to us. And they don't
anything is one of the worst schools for one of the worst states for bullying in schools and stuff. And so like, I've had to tell her, defend yourself, we use your dang nails, you use elbow like, bite people like you do what you got to do to and it's terrifying trying to raise a girl in a world now where sexual assault is so prevalent, like it's air.
And I'm tired of hearing, you know, the whole, you know, it didn't used to be this bad. It wasn't always this bad. Yeah, it was. We just didn't have social media to, you know, immediately go and share our stories or, you know, talk to other people and find a support group to help us. just, I'm iffy on social media when it comes to stuff like this, cause it, you'll find the people to help you when you'll find the people that don't.
when something like that happens to you, the PTSD is so isolating. And then you have, or at least before social media, that it was just you. And if maybe you came forward and spoke to someone, your immediate community around you might turn their backs or say you need attention or whatever, which I...
One of my biggest annoyances in the whole world is how women needing attention is somehow weaponized as well. We're just minding our business, you know?
Speaker 1 (47:53.056)
Just mind my dang business. Attention.
in like like that like negative attention where you're scrutinized and not believed and called a liar. I guess very few people I think. Again, like social media is this double edged sword where yes you can find support and and hear out other people's stories and finally feel seen and just be like my goodness I'm not alone but then you could also get doxed.
When people do crappy stuff on TikTok or whatever, like, yes, I do think there should be consequences, but to the point where people are afraid for their life? No, like everybody has their day where they're not at their best. Unfortunately, it might've been caught on video, but does this person deserve to suffer? No, there's just this balance that needs to be.
No.
Speaker 2 (48:50.132)
found and even though I from my space days we still haven't found it.
No!
It's been a long time. It does really seem now that since women are able to get educations and have their own jobs and they don't really need spouses, response and backlash to that is terrifying.
It really is. It really is. It really is. Like, I just... I'm not trying to drag men as a whole. So please don't think that I am. It is terrifying to be a woman these days, like, over anything. I've gotten death threats from local males because they didn't like a comment that I posted on, like, our local news. I don't know, like, why it is going, like...
What makes you think that this is okay? in society makes you think that this is okay? Are you better? You better hope I don't find out where you live or what? Like, what do you, what
Speaker 2 (49:56.802)
What you gonna do? But they say it with their whole chest, with their name and, you know,
picture. Yeah. And then they block you. you can't see anything. Yeah. But I'm able to get that screen cap. So I mean, like, I have cameras. I have this screen cap. We can play I can call the cops.
I don't think that it's all doom and gloom and that things aren't going to change. Like, we are moving forward, but it does seem, it seems like it's that kicking and screaming. When President Biden had signed that executive order, you know, adding sexual harassment and taking commanders out of the reporting process, did that make you feel any kind of way?
I mean, taking commanders out is trying to think of how to word it because I don't know if it honestly would make the situation better or worse because I mean, sometimes you do have that one in a thousand chance for that commander is going to back you. And if you remove that, like it's square one for you again. But I mean, more times than not, from what I've seen,
It's good old boys club. I'm torn on it, but.
Speaker 2 (51:11.352)
You know, there's just no perfect solution.
There's not, there's really not.
And like we were saying earlier, was like, it's every story that I've heard is unique, but like the common thread that they have is just the severity of it. the horrific nature of it. Since each case is unique, that makes it even more difficult to prosecute or just even understand if you're not in that wheelhouse, if you're not a social worker or a psychologist or something like that.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (51:45.134)
No, I absolutely agree.
If your daughter or son considered joining the military in the future, like say they want to follow in dad's footsteps.
Especially, I think for my daughter, I would be like, I would not be comfortable with her serving like in today's military because there's so much work to be done still. There is so little protection for her versus her male counterparts. And it just, I'm not okay with it. I would not be okay with it. My son, probably wouldn't worry about as much, but I still wouldn't, I don't feel comfortable with it. I mean, I was considering joining.
And this was after my assault. I was still considering joining, just to get out of the house and do something different. But I mean, after I came forward to my dad about the assault, he was like, hell no, I do not want you joining the military because he was like, it is prevalent. it's, mean, I heard, we all heard the stories of, like, hey, don't talk to strangers on the internet.
Don't do this. Don't do that. I mean, I was in Colorado Springs and 14 years old and had like a 24 year old. I went to the Air Force Academy hitting on me. It was creepy. It was creepy. So that was my first experience with like, this is inappropriate and weird. And then moving to Florida, another 25 year old dude, 26 year old dude, and I was 15.
Speaker 1 (53:21.65)
Hey, we should and I was like, what is like, I don't think people understand how truly prevalent it is in the military. I had had experiences prior to the actual assault where it was insane for like, know, like, hey, this isn't appropriate. it's like, don't do it again. Yeah.
It's not nipped in the bud, not at all. For people that have that psychology or sociology or mental health background, they know that these first instances are just people testing to see what they can get away with until something like that happens. For some reason, leadership is not cognizant of that.
Yeah.
The one time that I did see with my own eyes, harassment get dealt with like this dude was gone was in field training. When I was in ROTC, there was a guy that was like very gregarious and over the top and he would come up with his own Jodies or something, know, the stuff you sing while you run. He was in a different flight than mine, but.
At some point they taught us to do combatives and it was like some light jujitsu moves and MMA crap that you never use again. Never. I don't know why it was important for us to learn this, but one move in particular, I think it was called the rear naked choke. know, it's all being very close to someone and, you know, choking them out basically until they tap out. And I think in one of the showers, that guy
Speaker 2 (54:59.872)
said that he wanted to put one of the female cadet training assistants in a rear naked choke. He was gone that day, that day. And I never saw anything like that happen ever again. Well, I was a service member. There's, there's opportunity to, to prevent this from happening. I literally saw it and it's just not done.
Thank
Speaker 2 (55:24.686)
There's more effort, it seems, to get the person that the assault happened to, there's more effort to get them out of the military than the person that caused the harm. That's just something to think about. And in that case, it doesn't matter the gender. Like whoever is the non-aggressor in that situation, they're out. You didn't...
ridiculous.
Speaker 2 (55:50.904)
follow the rules, you know, you didn't keep it to yourself. You didn't bury it. You're showing us in a bad light. you're done. Good luck dealing with the VA moving forward. What do you think it would take for you to feel safe letting one of your children join?
would really have to see the military as a whole stand up and not just wait until there's, you know, something like the Me Too movement or anything like that to come forward and be like, hey, you know, yeah, we have a problem. And so we're dealing with it. Like, no, I want to see action, because you can say you're dealing with it. But clearly, you're not if we're able to sit here and have conversations like this. They're quick.
to kick people out for stuff as stupid as, you know, somebody who works on computers for a living, not being able to run a mile and, you know, in a certain amount of time. But you have Billy Bob whatever over here with multiple women came forward and it's, we're gonna do our best to bury this. I don't understand the logic. I don't understand the logic.
when they were trying, you know, doing their best to kick people out. Why didn't you go for the people that had, you know, the sexual assaults under the belt instead of, you know, the person who, man, they missed like two appointments. Why are you not going after the people that you should be? Why are you not going after the problematic people? And more oftentimes than not, it's because they don't want to find replacements for these people to fill the position. Like I was, I'd literally been told that excuse before, well then we have to fill their position.
Okay, so do it. You're gonna tell me there's not people out there to do it? Like people PCS all the time. There's people out there to do it. I know this is probably maybe dumb of me to say, but I feel like a lot of these people stay in because their leadership might have some of the same under their belt. And it's, you go down, I'm going down. And it's, I don't know if you remember, it was like a couple years ago where they took down a couple senior master sergeants, master sergeants for being the pimps.
Speaker 1 (58:00.758)
of the Air Force. He said the Air Force? Him of the Air Force. They literally called them this in the paper because they basically had this sex ring going on. And we actually knew one of the guys who was arrested for it. Like I grew up with this guy in my house and it's you never know who someone is because I never in my life would have looked at this guy and saw it.
Timps of the year.
Speaker 1 (58:25.87)
that that was the kind of person he was. But these are, like I said, the kind of people that it's a pattern and they keep them in and it's not safe.
Yeah, I've noticed in just the articles that I've been posting since, I don't know, maybe July. It's from top to bottom. Doesn't matter if it's somebody that's a brigadier general or airman first class. It's happening throughout the ranks.
And it's happening far too frequently, but we don't hear about it until there's podcasts like this where people are encouraged to come forward and talk about it and have a voice.
there's people that die and it's one news that's one or the other. So if you were able to speak to quote unquote Chad now with this, who you've become, you're now a married woman with a family and you're still healing, but you're living your life. What would you want to say to him?
one because that's honestly something I've never thought about other than whatever power he thought he took from me. He didn't, he didn't break me. It's been a hell of a journey but he didn't break me.
Speaker 2 (59:36.406)
And for the people that perpetuated the rumor mill, what would you want to say to them?
Nothing kind. That's something like I still struggle with and I still have trust issues of like, who can I tell? I can not tell. Listen, the next time someone comes to you, listen, without a biased mind. Because I'm sorry, but your boyfriends are capable of terrible things too. You never really know someone, unfortunately. People are pretty good at hiding their true nature until they can't anymore. I hate saying the word victim. I hate it.
But like that's not how I was treated. I was treated more like, great, another one we have to push under the rug. another one. The doctor straight told me, you're not the first one to come through here after a corona night with, and I'm like, okay, so why is this something that is still happening on the regular? So was, and they only shut it down for I think like three months. And obviously assault cases drop. So they open it back
One thing I had noticed about like going to the fest for our listeners that haven't been to Germany, fests are like the county fair.
They had a lot of county fairs.
Speaker 2 (01:00:49.774)
It was like as soon as, I don't know, maybe June happened, the floodgates opened, there were floods in some village somewhere. But I did notice that when I would go to them and, you know, just happy having a good time, I would, it wasn't the German people groping me and thanking me for doing like inappropriate stuff like that to get my attention. It was the airmen.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:01:19.458)
whatever few army and I think I saw a Navy person at Rammstein like once, but it was always a military member. And then I also experienced that when I lived in Guam. I love music festivals. I love EDM. I don't know why it just touches my soul. I couldn't explain it to you. They had one in Guam the last summer that I was there.
My mental health wasn't doing great. I just was having a rough time there. But they had one that was called the Electric Island Festival.
And I psyched myself up to go, you know, I'd been hitting the gym and I was completely sober that summer. I, my roommate and the girl he was seeing at the time, they went with me and it was the first time I put on makeup in a while. And you know what you wear to festivals. It's very little. Also it's like freaking 90 degrees, 150 % humidity. But I'd been to music festivals many times before, never been touched, never been whistled at.
never had a reason to feel uncomfortable. There's, they call it plur, it's peace, love, unity, and respect. Everybody looks out for everybody at festivals. This festival was mostly attended by, I think there was a ship in port, so Navy folks, and we live pretty near the Navy base, and the Force base was on the other side of the island, but I'm sure people came out there.
I think I was at that festival for 45 minutes and I couldn't take it. I was grabbed, somebody pulled my shirt, somebody pulled the, I had a braid that I'd done. Yeah, somebody tried to like put their hands inside my shorts and I told my roommate, was like, I can't do this, I have to leave. I had no words for it, that I've been to music festivals where people are on.
Speaker 2 (01:03:12.812)
God knows what they're on some kind of drug, they're vibing with the music and none of them in their foggiest dreams would have considered doing something like that. a bunch of military dudes was a freak.
yeah, inappropriately touched in a bar while I was there with my husband. A guy walked up behind me and gave me the, you know, the hand at the back of a skirt. Yeah, and I shoved him. I just turned, I didn't care who was around me. I immediately turned around and shoved him. And this was in a German bar, military, and the bartender was like, what was that? Like coming at me. And I was like, uh-uh, like he grabbed me. I got him away from me. And his friend comes over because they were about to kick him out of the bar.
And he's like, my friend's so sorry. Can you just come say sorry? Like, can he come, you know, come over and he could say sorry to you. He grabs my hand and he's like crying. I was like, please do not. Like, you don't get to touch me after what you just did. Do not touch me. And like, I yanked my hand away from him. And you know, he was like, ooh, hoo, hoo, hoo, hoo, hoo, hoo. The second I walked away, those waterworks, boop, dried right up. And I was like, walk back over. The bartender was like, so? I was like, I'm gonna get him out of here. Like, mm-mm. If it was like sincere.
Like it still doesn't negate the fact that he did it or make it okay. And I understand that some people do really stupid things while they're drunk. I get it. Doesn't make it okay. But if you're going to give me a sincere apology and this is literally something you don't typically do, maybe I could like, again, still not okay with it, but maybe I can see like, you you're really, really drunk and you need to go home. the way this guy turned off those.
fireworks and I was like, no, you're a psychopath and you need to
Speaker 2 (01:04:55.982)
One thing I learned in therapy was that if someone apologizes to you and then there's no change in their behavior, it wasn't an apology. was a manipulation. I do want to thank you again for your courage and coming forward and sharing what happened to you. Even just seeing your face, I know it's still gutting to see that it still is affecting you like that.
but your story is going to make someone that was, know, they might've been in a bar in England or who knows, one of the bases around Vegas and something like that happened to them. Thank you. Thank you for putting yourself out there and letting yourself be heard and seen. Thank you for your husband as well, you know, supporting you and being there for you.
We're gonna make his ego just...
and say, you know what, my friend Rachel thinks are cool.
Well.
Speaker 2 (01:05:57.934)
And also to your parents, give them a hug for me as well next time you see them. Hello. Okay, well there you have it. That was our interview with Taylor. So yes, her experience was unique being that she was not the service member and then the attacker was military police. So she was...
Just too scared because he would have been part of the process. If you'd like to speak to Taylor, go to our website, silencevoicesmst.com. Click the listen online tab and then scroll down to salute our survivors. You can go ahead and leave her a message, some words of kindness, or just let her know that you're thinking of her. It does take a lot of courage to come on this podcast and share these moments with us. And this is your host, RaeShel Smith, inviting you to stay safe, be kind, and take care.
We'll see you in the next episode. Thank you for tuning in to Silence Voices, Stories of MST. Your support means the world to us. To keep these important conversations going, we rely on your generosity. Consider donating to help us continue to shed light on this crucial issue. Visit our website at www.silencevoicesmst.com to contribute.
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