Episode Transcript
content warning the silence voices stories of MST podcast discuss the sensitive and potentially triggering topics related to military sexual trauma. we want to provide a safe space for survivors and those seeking to understand these issues better. please be advised that the content may not be suitable for younger audiences, listener discretion is advised. if you or someone you know is in need of support please consider seeking guidance from a mental health professional or a trusted resource.
welcome to silence voices stories of MST hosted by Rachelle Smith. this podcast is dedicated to giving a voice to military sexual trauma survivors. each week we'll bring you powerful stories of courage, resilience, and healing. join us on this journey to create awareness, spark dialogue, and drive change within the military community. it's time to break the silence and amplify the voices of those who have been silenced for far too long. listen in and become a part of a movement that's shaping the future. this is silence voices stories of MST.
hello and welcome, this is Rachelle Smith the host of Silence voices stories of MST. thank you so much for joining me. if you are listening today on Veterans Day, thank you for being with me on the release. this is a pretty exciting moment for a lot of survivors, myself included. today's interview is with a former Air Force officer named Julie who experienced so much sexual harassment throughout her time in the military. she even mentions that it's something that she really has to deal with now as a civilian as well. but her interview is incredible. there are moments in it that you'll get angry, you'll get annoyed, you'll definitely understand because this is something that many women face when they work in male dominated industries. but there are also moments where you want to cheer for her and give her a hug and try to find some kind of trophy that she can put on her mantle for not giving up and protecting others. she protected others with her story and coming forward, and that is laudable in a situation that is downright terrifying to come forward.
I also wanted to mention that Julie was one of the very first people to volunteer to be on this podcast when I was in the development phase. so this is a very brave young woman. I think she has a very bright future ahead of her. if you want to reach out to Julie because her story resonated with you, hang out till the end of the episode and I'll share the details on how to reach her.
hi Julie, welcome. I went through ROTC with Rachelle. prior to joining ROTC I actually had not planned on going to the military. it was kind of a, I don't want to say it was unplanned but it also wasn't. I had a friend in high school who did Civil Air Patrol so I saw her in uniform a lot and she wanted to go to the Air Force Academy, which she did. but I had asked her when she applied, well what do you do if you don't get in? and she goes, well I'll do ROTC. so I had heard of ROTC but I didn't really know anything about the military. I didn't know the difference between enlisted and officer, none of that. the idea was kind of in the back of my head. I taught Taekwondo when I was in college and I just offhandedly said something about it to one of the instructors who just so happened to be a major in the Air Force. he was really the one that got gung ho about it and convinced me to do it. he went with me to the University open house and I saw the ROTC table there, asked them some questions, and all I heard was, I'm gonna have a job out of college. sign me up.
did you have any family members in the past that had joined at all or you were just completely new to it? yeah, my dad and several family members had been in the Navy but my dad had retired when I was like six so I didn't live the military life in any way. it was a completely unfamiliar thing for me. it's different to hear their stories about it and their experiences and then you're like, why did I go through this?
when you did finally commission and after going through field training you just sort of eat, live, and breathe Air Force. what was your expectation when you did finally step foot onto your first base and process all of that? I don't really know what my expectations were. I can honestly say I never went in with rose colored glasses. I was never bed blue or anything like that, but I also wasn't expecting it to be bad either. I was green. I was like, okay, I guess I'll just figure it out as I go. my first duty station was Korea and I was a flight commander right off the bat at 22. most of my flight mates were older than me. that's a huge responsibility just right out of the gate. and I was told, and this would actually be a theme throughout my career, that I had one of the hardest flights in the squadron. that went on throughout my career. every place I went, they were like, you have the hardest assignment. it was definitely a trial by fire.
what did you think of Korea itself? that must have been a huge transition from Texas to Asia. I honestly wasn't a huge fan. the whole place that I worked just had this black cloud over it that really dampened how I felt about Korea. I was living in hell. I did not enjoy my time there. the people in your environment shape the environment and you don't realize it until you're away from your family and friends.
so it's harder to have the support or someone to just talk to and blow off steam, so I totally understand that. and I don't want to make it sound like the people were bad, it really wasn't the people, it was just the environment. everyone was depressed there and I can understand why. it was just a very repressive feeling. but it is amazing too that you were able to see a country that people probably, if they haven't been in the military, it's not some place they would commonly go if they're from the US. I did have some fun times, like we went hiking and we spent the night outside. we literally spent the night outside, didn't even bring a tent, we just spent the night out there. Korea has some really gorgeous nature.
you want to transition now into kind of discussing MST and its impact if you're comfortable. go ahead and head that way, kind of briefly describe what your experience was with that. you don't need to name names or time frames or any of that, but just to your level of comfort describe the incident itself. there are actually three separate incidents, only one of which I reported, but all three incidents involved older men. and that has continued to be a theme since leaving the military. I look like I'm in my 20s, guys are going through whatever midlife crisis they're in, and they see me as if I can get her then I've still got it. it still to this day happens all the time, older men not only hitting on me but saying disgusting things.
the one that I did report happened on the way to Afghanistan. the whole trip to Afghanistan and back was just horrible. I had a two week notice. the person that was supposed to go got medically removed at the last second and they needed someone from my base. I had wanted to deploy, so I raised my hand. what I didn't know was that they had to request for me not to go to pre deployment training because they needed me right then. they had sent that request to Bagram, but it was never approved or disapproved. they just sent me off thinking once she makes it there they’ll have no choice. when I got to Qatar they pulled me aside and said we have to send you back.
because I only had two weeks notice I had all my stuff. I had two large duffel bags, my gun, my chem gear, all of it. I went to pre deployment training in New Jersey. this was the very last night, me and some of my flight members were going to have a dinner and then some of us were going to stay after dinner to go drinking since it would be our last time having alcohol for a while. we were waiting for a taxi and I saw this guy sitting there. I had seen him around, he was a higher ranking enlisted person. he was just sitting by himself and looked kind of down. I said, well you can join our group. he came with us and sat next to me. as he was talking to me he kept putting his hand on my knee.
there was just something I didn’t like about him, I couldn’t put my finger on it. when dinner ended and people started getting up, I decided I would move. well, he moved too and sat across from me and started messing with my feet. I pulled my feet back and he said, oh we’re playing footsie. I just didn’t know how to react. he went up to get a beer, I moved again and sat down next to some people. I told them he was creeping me out and asked if they could make sure he didn’t sit near me. they agreed.
we all went to the bar area and as I was reading the menu he came up behind me and put his hands either on my shoulders or my lower back and rubbed. I told him to back off. he did for that moment. then we left and went to another bar. I started getting a little drunk, and I think it was when we were leaving the second bar, my memory is fuzzy, but he cupped my butt as we were leaving single file. I grabbed his hand and threw it down. we went to another bar and he kept trying to sit next to me. several guys later told me they had warned him to stay away from me but he didn’t listen.
I went to the bathroom, and when I was about to come out, he was standing right there waiting. one of the bartenders saw me, asked if I was okay, and when I told her, she got one of her guy friends to walk me out because the taxi had arrived. we all got in and the night ended. I told my roommate and she told me I needed to report it. I didn’t want to because I knew what that process was like, but she told me he was about to become a First Sergeant, which meant he would have hundreds of airmen under him. that changed my mind.
when I reported, because he was in the Guard, they assigned me a Guard JAG. everyone knows the Guard protects their own. someone told me this JAG had a reputation for being a bro and wouldn’t be on my side, and that was true. for months he kept trying to get me to change my story. he asked me the same questions over and over. when the guy was interviewed by OSI he openly admitted he thought we had something. he said he thought we were hitting it off.
there were multiple witnesses. no one saw him grab me, but they all saw how he was acting. everyone corroborated my story. even his commander said he had a reputation for being creepy, but he was good at his job. I also found out he had two other harassment claims before me that got swept under the rug. so he felt emboldened. it almost felt like the investigation was more about proving that I was lying than proving what he did.
being accused of lying was horrible. there were times I even questioned myself because they kept insisting I was not remembering correctly. they said maybe he was trying to help me because I fell, that I was confused about the location, but none of that was true. still, hearing it over and over made me doubt myself. meanwhile, I was deployed in Afghanistan where other men were hitting on me and trying to touch me. it was awful. I was being gaslit by the very people who were supposed to help me.
Afghanistan itself was a horrible experience. my commander had a Trump-like ego, switching between being overly nice and then cruel, which kept everyone anxious. there was also a Navy guy near me who constantly whispered that he wanted to kill himself or kill us. we reported it multiple times, but nothing happened. I lived in a constant state of anxiety.
later I was diagnosed with PTSD. I did not think I had it because I thought PTSD meant a massive trauma, but a friend who worked for the VA told me I did and encouraged me to get help. my trauma was compounded by other factors around me. therapy helped me understand it.
I had written a book called The Myth of Adulting: Everyone’s Just Winging It, based on journal entries I had kept for years. I also contributed to another book called Stories from the Front Line. writing became a big coping mechanism for me.
as for the process, I never knew what actually happened to him. my first JAG told my victim advocate I had no case and the best I could hope for was a letter of reprimand. at that point my dad suggested I write to Senator Gillibrand. once my advocate mentioned that, suddenly I was given a new JAG. the new JAG commander said I had one of the best cases he had ever seen. my story had never changed, there were multiple witnesses, and the accused already had prior harassment reports.
the final decision came down to the commander. he was hesitant at first, but my advocate convinced him that I had no reason to ruin this man’s career, that I did not know him before and had no motive. she told me what would likely happen was an Article 15 and that he would be kicked out. I will never know if that actually happened, but I do feel vindicated that action was taken.
it did not negatively affect my career because I had supportive leadership. my commander and flight commander immediately believed me. I had a good reputation, and they backed me the whole time.
but women in the military are often unfairly categorized as either “good girls” or “troublemakers.” one time I was introduced at a party as “one of the good lieutenants” because I wasn’t “sleeping around.” I pushed back and pointed out that none of the women were doing that, but the men sleeping with trafficked women were being ignored.
living in Guam later opened my eyes to how much human trafficking is tied to military life. it was everywhere around bases, both in the US and abroad. women who are active duty cannot point it out without being labeled the problem.
after leaving the Air Force, transitioning with undiagnosed PTSD and anxiety was very difficult. my first year out was especially hard. in the military everything is constant stress, so you do not realize how much anxiety you are living with until you leave. my first civilian job was calm and uneventful, but I still felt anxious all the time. that was what led me into therapy.
the Stephen A. Cohen Military Family Clinic in San Antonio helped me a lot. I did not initially go for trauma, I went because of anxiety and struggles with dating and trust, but therapy still ended up covering my experiences with harassment. I still struggle with trust, especially in dating, but I am better than I used to be.
I tried other types of therapy like Anxiety Guys, which focuses on retraining the brain, but it did not work for me even though it has good reviews. therapy is trial and error. some things stick, others do not.
writing became one of my biggest coping mechanisms, which is why I wrote books. I also use karaoke as an outlet, singing powerful songs to get my anger out. Taylor Swift’s song “I Did Something Bad” is one of my favorites. Taylor Swift herself kept me going through the case. when I was about to give up after being told the offender would only get a letter of reprimand, I read about her court case where she countersued for one dollar. her persistence gave me the strength to keep fighting.
her music has carried me through many difficult times. it came out just as I moved from California to Texas for college, and I had no friends. her songs helped me through. there were many moments where her music arrived at just the right time for what I was going through.
if I were to give advice to young people considering the military, I would say first take a personality test to see if it is even a good fit. if you already struggle with depression or anxiety, do not join because it will only make it worse. also, know exactly what job you want going in, otherwise you could get stuck in a role you hate.
as for harassment, you will face it in and out of the military. the military is essentially civilian life in uniform, with the same problems but under tighter control. if you are in any supervisory role, you will be forced to deal with issues you could avoid in the civilian world.
there were positive and negative effects on me. the positive is that I gained confidence and learned not to let people walk over me. the negative is that I became more combative at times, ready to fight battles I did not need to fight. I also developed hypervigilance. I have trouble letting my guard down, even with innocent gestures like a hand on my shoulder. I always think, where is this going next.
harassment is ingrained in culture. men do not think before doing things like shoulder squeezes or comments. society has normalized it, and while progress is being made, it is slow.
